I was comparing regular M1 and this new M1 HM and the only difference I see is that the Energy Conserving tag is missing from this new one. They're the same price, but whats the difference? How is this new "High Mileage" one better for my cars? Any good long term results yet?
M1 High Mileage? Whats the difference?
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The Mobil 1 High Mileage oil, which is only available in 10W30 and 10W40 weights, is said to be a little thicker and to have extra anti-wear additives than regular, energy conserving M1. It has a lower pour point than the API SM rated formulas, indicating possibly more real synthetic group IV in the formula. And, it is not SM, but still API SL, which should mean it still has enough anti-wear additives for sliding tappet engines.
High mileage oil is generally what our oil would be if it were not for CAFE and EPA warranty requirements for catalytic converters.
Long live high mileage oil!
Long live high mileage oil!
But wouldn't one think that their catalytic converter might not last as long?
Well I should qualify that. Some HM are compliant with the lower zddp levels for the cat, such as Maxlife. Maxlife does, however, add 300 ppm moly which I think makes up for it. Other HM, specifically SL, would not comply with the latest cat requirements. I believe the debate is not resolved re whether this would really poison a cat. Seems oil consumption levels are a greater concern than zddp levels, since the phos must get to the cat first to do any putative damage.
Now if the engine is consuming a lot, the cat probably is toast anyway. And then there are folk who don't know since they live in areas where there is no testing.
Also, I should clarify, probably the auto companies requiring the low zddp in caution against EPA warranty requirements as the company doesn't want to actually have to replace a cat.
I'm assuming that since my car was built in 1994, they based their oil change information on the oil from that time, and didn't expect catalytic converters to be poisoned using that oil. Back then, they probably had more zddp, etc... something to think about
TallPaul- Would you say Maxlife synthetic is really Synpower with a special HM add pack? I emailed Valvoline that question and they skirted the the question.
300ppm- What's your thought on this VS. the zddp? I realize that different companies have their own formulas etc... I'm just trying to understand how they have responded to the new "SM" regulations.
The way I see it, SM is a step backwards in protection. SL oils such as Mobil 1 HM might still be the ticket? (Formula wise) Any thoughts? Thanks
300ppm- What's your thought on this VS. the zddp? I realize that different companies have their own formulas etc... I'm just trying to understand how they have responded to the new "SM" regulations.
The way I see it, SM is a step backwards in protection. SL oils such as Mobil 1 HM might still be the ticket? (Formula wise) Any thoughts? Thanks
Well SL is definitely the proved formula from the zddp standpoint (boy, did I avoid going out on any sort of a limb with that circular statement). Actually, SH would have even more zddp (1200 ppm more or less).
Yeah, go with Mobil 1 HM or their conventional HM for that matter if it's SL levels of zddp.
I am not qualified to say that the moly makes up for the zddp, but at least one of the site experts felt it to be a good assumption. I think Maxlife Blend is 300 ppm and the synthetic is 290, per the product data sheets.
Not sure what Max Synth is based on. Seems Max blend is AllClimate with the pao, moly, etc. So it's logical that the Max Syn is built off the basic Synpower formulation, except in both cases you have better HTHS wiht the HM stuff and that could be acheived with using thicker base oil and or better base oil (some PAO in the HM). MSDS shows PAO for the Max blend, but I can't find if for the Max syn, but Valvoline techs have told me the syn has more PAO than the blend.
So yeah perhaps take synpower, add some moly, some PAO, some seal conditioner, and perhaps that is Maxlife Syn.
Yeah, go with Mobil 1 HM or their conventional HM for that matter if it's SL levels of zddp.
I am not qualified to say that the moly makes up for the zddp, but at least one of the site experts felt it to be a good assumption. I think Maxlife Blend is 300 ppm and the synthetic is 290, per the product data sheets.
Not sure what Max Synth is based on. Seems Max blend is AllClimate with the pao, moly, etc. So it's logical that the Max Syn is built off the basic Synpower formulation, except in both cases you have better HTHS wiht the HM stuff and that could be acheived with using thicker base oil and or better base oil (some PAO in the HM). MSDS shows PAO for the Max blend, but I can't find if for the Max syn, but Valvoline techs have told me the syn has more PAO than the blend.
So yeah perhaps take synpower, add some moly, some PAO, some seal conditioner, and perhaps that is Maxlife Syn.
As a Porsche mechanic on another website said, regarding the new "SM" oils, "A new Porsche engine costs a lot more than a new catalytic converter."
My limited understanding of cat converter poisoning is that it would take a LOT of oil burning to clog up a cat with a pre-SM oil...and an even larger amount of oil burning to clog up a cat using SM oil.
To add to that, like many others have said, a cat converter is a whole lot easier to deal with than a worn out top end. And I'm NOT saying a SM oil will ruin a top end, but I am saying that it would take a lot of oil burning to clog a cat.
To add to that, like many others have said, a cat converter is a whole lot easier to deal with than a worn out top end. And I'm NOT saying a SM oil will ruin a top end, but I am saying that it would take a lot of oil burning to clog a cat.
Very interesting observation. Their whole MSDS search window is different now. I don't see a date, but the file came up weird with a lot of codes in the beginning and end. The body of text is there though and it says of 10w30 Maxlife:
CAS 64742-54-7 >=80-
Previously it was 12-22% PAO and the rest Group I. So this actually may not be a bad thing. Now you get so much Group III and the rest Group II (that CAS covers both Group II and III as I understand it). I wonder if this change was when "Blend" was put on the bottles?
All my Maxlife is 2006 production, so probably still PAO.
I have a sample of M1 HM 10W30 in for UOA right now with 5K miles (8K km) on it. I should be posting it next week.
The M1 website says the HM series has extra detergents capable of cleaning deposits.
The M1 website says the HM series has extra detergents capable of cleaning deposits.
Energy Conserving oils should all come in pink bottles.
That UOA is now posted for those interested.
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