M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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I can see this having an impact on Mobil's premium marketing. The tech department(PR/Marketing deal with the public guys)are likely kept in the dark and have a standard list of responses to the publics questions.
Right - about as likely as when Fram oil filter pricing floored as all the reports of cheap construction began accumulating on BITOG... (EM's finally wised up the "sucker-born-every-minute" mindset of Joe Consumer.
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This is the response I got from Mobil. They probably didn't even tell their tech staff. LOL
Do you think this will impact the elections?
I called up the 800 and number, but received a different response. "Mobil 1 is fully synthetic." but when pressed for Group III, Group IV, Group V, or even PAO, they would only state "fully synthetic." I presented the view that the consumer would really like to know what he/she is buying, and again received "fully synthetic."
I do believe that they did change and didn't expect anyone to notice. All I can say is that I'm happy that BITOG is here for us to understand and communicate.
For the flamers: will this change affect the engine? Probably not, but if I'm paying $$$ for "fully synthetic oil", then I want "fully synthetic oil." Sheesh if all I wanted was just "good" oil then I'll stick to Chevron/Havoline and 3k ocis...if not longer.
Shame on XOM! Bust Castrol's chops, only to sell out!
Hey if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
They already did, remember? The XL line is Group III, and they call it synthetic. Before that line came out Amsoil made a big deal about how Group III isn't really synthetic, yada, yada. But when they introduce their own Group III oil, it's somehow now synthetic.
the filter had sludge from the oil inside the engine, comprhende amigo? yes the filter catches sludge the fact that sludge is "INSIDE" the engine is NOT ACCEPTABLE for my PAO priced crude based oil
Come on people. One unverified test and an allegation that one grade of M1 is supposedly G-III, and half of you seem to be accepting it as a firmly established article of faith. Tom, not a personal slam against you, but we need more than that. You need to do some repeat runs, showing properly controlled conditions, and post some data. As my old HS algebra teacher used to insist, "show your work!"
I've asked Mobil myself a couple times over the years, and got the same answer Buster just did: the product line is based upon predominantly PAO, with other syn fluids balancing out the mix (e.g. esters and ANs). If Mobil is still saying G-IV, I'm inclined to accept that, for two reasons. First, if it's not, they're facing huge consumer fraud problems for representing that it is. Second, IMO, Mobil's specific statements simply outweighs Tom's information, at least in its present form.
EDIT: Sorry, not reading closely enough. Anyway, I just shot Mobil my own email question, asking about specific groups. We'll see what they have to say.
I've asked Mobil myself a couple times over the years, and got the same answer Buster just did: the product line is based upon predominantly PAO, with other syn fluids balancing out the mix (e.g. esters and ANs). If Mobil is still saying G-IV, I'm inclined to accept that, for two reasons. First, if it's not, they're facing huge consumer fraud problems for representing that it is. Second, IMO, Mobil's specific statements simply outweighs Tom's information, at least in its present form.
EDIT: Sorry, not reading closely enough. Anyway, I just shot Mobil my own email question, asking about specific groups. We'll see what they have to say.
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Come on people. One unverified test and an allegation that one grade of M1 is supposedly G-III, and half of you seem to be accepting it as a firmly established article of faith. Tom, not a personal slam against you, but we need more than that. You need to do some repeat runs, showing properly controlled conditions, and post some data. As my old HS algebra teacher used to insist, "show your work!"
I've asked Mobil myself a couple times over the years, and got the same answer Buster just did: the product line is based upon predominantly PAO, with other syn fluids balancing out the mix (e.g. esters and ANs). If Mobil is still saying G-IV, I'm inclined to accept that, for two reasons. First, if it's not, they're facing huge consumer fraud problems for representing that it is. Second, IMO, Mobil's specific statements simply outweighs Tom's information, at least in its present form.
Well...
If this is the new M1 EP 15W50, then I am disallusianed.
A very bad marketing decision that causes doubt into Mobil's honesty and quality about the Mobil 1 products.
Maybe Mobil is refining and packaging their oils in China, for financial reasons now days and that's all they got?
Is this the begining of a new trend?
If this is the new M1 EP 15W50, then I am disallusianed.
A very bad marketing decision that causes doubt into Mobil's honesty and quality about the Mobil 1 products.
Maybe Mobil is refining and packaging their oils in China, for financial reasons now days and that's all they got?
Is this the begining of a new trend?
The LAST thing we need to do is take out our gripes on Tom. Many a industry professional has been heckeled away from here...perhaps that's because some of the resident "experts" want it that way.
A-U:
I can't speak for the others, but you should not read my post that way, and if Tom is the professional I believe he is, he won't either. Of all people, science and engineering professionals should be most keenly aware of the need to support claims, particularly ones about which there is (or may be) disagreement, with data, and to show how they achieved reliable results. I don't think Tom would disagree with any of this.
I can't speak for the others, but you should not read my post that way, and if Tom is the professional I believe he is, he won't either. Of all people, science and engineering professionals should be most keenly aware of the need to support claims, particularly ones about which there is (or may be) disagreement, with data, and to show how they achieved reliable results. I don't think Tom would disagree with any of this.
Hi Ekpolk,
Valid point, but to prove the point I would have to post graphs on mineral oil, AN, PAO, ester, and the M1 samples, and then get into explaining how to interpret it all. That's just a bit deeper than I wanted to get into this. I ran the oil analysis looking for esters as I am in the business and like to keep up-to-date, and shared the results here because of the great (as in fanatical
) interest in oil composition.
I was also concerned with Mobil's apparent denial, until I looked at the G.C.s of the 15W-50 and the 5W-30 this week. We did repeat the runs and compared them to known base oils under the same conditions. I have been interpreting G.C. graphs of lubricants for over 30 years and have no doubt on these analyses. From what I am reading here it appears that Mobil is giving mixed signals themselves, and it is quite possible that they do not share specific formulation information with their sales & customer service folks beyond the party line "full synthetic". Pretty common in business.
I don't mind sharing our conclusions here, but I must keep a lid on the amount of company resources spent on matters that are not strictly business.
Tom
Valid point, but to prove the point I would have to post graphs on mineral oil, AN, PAO, ester, and the M1 samples, and then get into explaining how to interpret it all. That's just a bit deeper than I wanted to get into this. I ran the oil analysis looking for esters as I am in the business and like to keep up-to-date, and shared the results here because of the great (as in fanatical
I was also concerned with Mobil's apparent denial, until I looked at the G.C.s of the 15W-50 and the 5W-30 this week. We did repeat the runs and compared them to known base oils under the same conditions. I have been interpreting G.C. graphs of lubricants for over 30 years and have no doubt on these analyses. From what I am reading here it appears that Mobil is giving mixed signals themselves, and it is quite possible that they do not share specific formulation information with their sales & customer service folks beyond the party line "full synthetic". Pretty common in business.
I don't mind sharing our conclusions here, but I must keep a lid on the amount of company resources spent on matters that are not strictly business.
Tom
I didn't quote anyone.
Ekpolk..Pro Bono for BITOG memebers? I know even a Lawyers has to eat
This is about as good as we can get for the price.
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