M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III

Tom NJ · Oct 31, 2006

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Now if I can talk you into mixing me up some wicked all PAO/POE oils for my autos I'd be real interested! How 'bout it?

Maybe when I retire.

Tom

Tom NJ · Oct 31, 2006

Hi JHZR2,

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Tom NJ, I appreciated explaining your methods in the other thread, but am curious as to what your calibration samples are. Care to share labeled chromatograms of some of the oils indicating elution times for various types of hydrocarbons such ac PAOs and mineral oils??? I put a lot of chromatograms on this site before for fuels and additives. It would be interesting to see some GC results for motor oils. My capillary columns only go up to 320C, so Im not sure that I could run the samples, Id be scared to! How much do you cut your oil samples? what solvent do you use? Do you run split or splitless?

We shoot external standards of known pure base oils and compare retention times and relative area. In some cases we use methods of addition if we need precise data. In this motor oil work we are just looking for snapshots of the base oil profile to see what is present and relative ratios - accurate for identification of the base oils but not precise for quantification.

Not sure what solvent they are using today, probably hexane or acetone. I don't believe we are using a column splitter. You should be able to good graphs for most oils at 320C. Suggest you shoot a high dilution and adjust the injection based on the signal strength. When you get some graphs you can email them to me and I'll help with the interpretation.

Regarding posting the graphs, I can see myself explaining wiggly lines for hours a day

There may also be some other issues, but I'll think about it.

Tom

Tom NJ · Oct 31, 2006

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Tom, I'm curious to see the 10/06 sample. They have reformulated to meet the SM/GF spec. Thanks for doing this btw.

Okay boys and girls, take a seat cause you aren't going to like this.

The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006 just came out of the G.C. and it is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III. It also contains a good slug of AN and some PAO, but little or no ester. Will have more data tomorrow.

Just for the record, I intend to still use M1 EP, in spite of their slide down the slippery slope.

Tom

double vanos · Oct 31, 2006

I'm beginning to wonder if we should have Redline checked, just to keep 'em honest.

Oil Changer · Oct 31, 2006

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Quote:

Tom, I'm curious to see the 10/06 sample. They have reformulated to meet the SM/GF spec. Thanks for doing this btw.

Click to expand...

Okay boys and girls, take a seat cause you aren't going to like this.

The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006 just came out of the G.C. and it is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III. It also contains a good slug of AN and some PAO, but little or no ester. Will have more data tomorrow.

Just for the record, I intend to still use M1 EP, in spite of their slide down the slippery slope.

Tom

Thanks again Tom for your posts. Having said that it is good enough for your continued use is somewhat reassuring, I will no longer spend that kind of money for a group III. Shame on EOM and their play on words. Their oils are no better then the rest of the cheap synthetic blends on the shelves. I like 0W30 so I guess it's GC for me now. I wonder if Amsoil sales will go up now.

427Z06 · Oct 31, 2006

Thanks, Tom. Most enlightening.

Terry always had positive things to say about M1 0w20, unlike some of his comments on current formulations of M1. If you find time to shoot another M1, that would be the grade I'd like to see the results of.

Thanks again, Tom.

RF Overlord · Oct 31, 2006

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The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006...is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III.

Now I'M going to go barf in the corner... this is indeed bad news, but not for me...for XOM, as I refuse to buy anything further from them. I have nothing at all against Group III oils, I just hate being deceived into thinking I'm buying a PAO and paying PAO prices, while getting something else. When my current stash of M1 is gone, I'm switching to PP.

This is especially egregious considering that XOM started the whole "GIII is not synthetic" ruckus in the first place. SHAME on them...

Bryanccfshr · Oct 31, 2006

Very interesting turn of events. Thanks for this information Tom, it is delightfull to have you here.

tripleM · Oct 31, 2006

Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Thanks Tom for the value added contribution.

buster · Oct 31, 2006

I have a problem with the price of the oil and it being a Grp III.

If the performance remains the same, it won't matter. For example, Shell uses Group III for their F1 teams. Schaeffer's and Synergyn also use a blend of Grp III/IV and V. I don't think it's a performance issue. I do think the price is too high.

buster · Oct 31, 2006

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Question:
Types of Synthetic Fluids in Mobil 1 Extended Performance
I have always used Mobil 1 full synthetic on all my vehicles and I love it. I have this question, is polyester base better than the polyalphaolefins you use in your oils? I am trying to compare Redline oil to Mobil 1 Extended Performance (gold cap) to see what the difference is.
-- Juan Moreno, Eagle Pass, TX
Answer:
We use many types of high performance synthetic fluid including esters and polyalphaolefins (PAO’s) in our fully synthetic Mobil 1 products. Each type of synthetic fluid plays a different role, so we use these different fluids to produce the best overall performance. Our success over the last 30 years speaks for itself and the fact that over 60% of NASCAR drivers use our products says a lot about their performance on the track and on the road.

RF Overlord · Oct 31, 2006

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SHAME on them...

I just realised the irony in that statement...I'm sure XOM's board of directors is hanging its' collective head in shame...while taking $36B to the bank every quarter...

AHC · Oct 31, 2006

Holy $*#&, do I feel cheated. I feel a bit like I'm lost in the mist now.

HELLO AMSOIL!!!

Pablo · Oct 31, 2006

This is rather shocking. I have defended M1 many times, even when other Amsoil dealers started with the Group III tirade (some didn't know XL is Group III). I don't understand it other than making cash. But M1 is still more expensive than XL.

TOM NJ, your credentials seem OK. But this is the web after all. Can we get a Mobil rebuttal?

Will M1 price suddenly floor?

simple_gifts · Oct 31, 2006

We should call Penn and Teller.

Not sure Mobil claimed EP was a PAO, maybe it WAS, now it isn't. Forumlation change, simple as that.

In the meantime, I'll be over in the corner here with my stockpile of Amsoil and Redline.....

-Thomas

Bryanccfshr · Oct 31, 2006

I sure am glad I already use conventional oils...
I wonder how long it will take the marketing department to go from denial to admittance to explaining that the formualtion is based on performance and not on restricting themselves to a specific base oil? I will Stay tuned.

Al · Oct 31, 2006

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Abandon ship, abandon ship!

As William Bendix of "Life of Riley" used to say. "What a revoltin' development."

RD400 · Oct 31, 2006

Holy bat guana! Next I'll be hearing that there's no Santa Claus....

buster · Oct 31, 2006

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Thank you for your inquiry,

Not sure who told you Mobil1 motor oils are hydrocracked, Mobil1
motor oils are 100% synthetic, utilizing the PAO technology (groupIV)
and a proprietary blend of additives that are tailored specifically for
each viscosity.

This is the response I got from Mobil. They probably didn't even tell their tech staff. LOL

Do you think this will impact the elections?

Primus · Oct 31, 2006

This is typical. And there were still some guys here that did not like to believe in gr.III move everywhere ! I shall not be surprised if tommorow we know that Motul 300V is gr.V for 20-30 % only.

M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III

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