I think I hear some snickering embedded in that level headed response.
Imagine Amsoil as one of the few true PAO formulations left. Get ready for a big increase in orders, Pabs.
M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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I think I hear some snickering embedded in that level headed response.
Imagine Amsoil as one of the few true PAO formulations left. Get ready for a big increase in orders, Pabs.
FLASH!!!!Castrol Oil and Mobil Oil have merged, forming the largest GRPIII oil producer in the world. The new ly formed corporation will be called MobilTrol One
Ha ha ha .....
Ha ha ha .....
THIS IS JUST PURE ENTERTAINMENT!
Are you serious? this is getting better by the minute.
Mobile spent time modifying groupIII oils
I knew this all along reading the Mobil1 advertising over the past few years, very vauge description of api service and even the excluding fine print on some M1 bottles
had me convinced some hind end covering was in play
Well the previous M1 15w50 had a HTHS of 5.1 versus the current blend's HTHS of 4.6, so an increase in the use of VII isn't too much of a stretch.
Quote:
If this is true, it must have a HUGE dose of VI improver if there is no PAO in the base oil blend.
I'm very skeptical.
Mobil1= 30 billion in reported profit this year
actualy 600 bilion begining jan 2005 to current
all the oil companies raked in 60 billion in reported profits, where did the balance of 600 billion go?
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHARE HOLDER VALUE
http://www.mobil1.jp/cts/pdt/mobil1.html
I ran a Google translation (beta) and it shows both 5w30 and 10w30 listed as "PAO + hydroprocessed."
Quote:
Mobil1= 30 billion in reported profit this year
actualy 600 bilion begining jan 2005 to current
all the oil companies raked in 60 billion in reported profits, where did the balance of 600 billion go?
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHARE HOLDER VALUE
Fool...should of moved your money into Starbucks a couple years earlier.
This makes sense too. I remember suspecting that M1 started to use Grp III in these grades when the viscosity increased, but there wasn't an associated increase in the HTHS. But then someone said (buster?) someone (?) ran it through a G.C. and it was still all PAO in the 5w30 grade.
The 5w-30 EP that Tom ran showed majority PAO with AN and POE. He said he did detect some small amount of mineral oil.
With baestock prices as high as they are, I'm not too surprised, however, Mobil seems to be just following the others at this point and I am disappointed. This is why their webpage has always read "contains synthetic basestocks, including PAO's".
Now I know Synergyn uses Group III with IV's and V's. They seem to think that Group III's provide some benefit. I doubt this is the reason Mobil uses them now.
If you also notice, Mobil's Noak numbers over the years have gone up quite a bit. The only oil on that Japanese site to state just PAO is the 0w-40. I'm sure the MC oils are all PAO/Ester blends as well.
Bottom line though is it looks like Mobil "might" have just given in and down graded their product.
With baestock prices as high as they are, I'm not too surprised, however, Mobil seems to be just following the others at this point and I am disappointed. This is why their webpage has always read "contains synthetic basestocks, including PAO's".
Now I know Synergyn uses Group III with IV's and V's. They seem to think that Group III's provide some benefit. I doubt this is the reason Mobil uses them now.
If you also notice, Mobil's Noak numbers over the years have gone up quite a bit. The only oil on that Japanese site to state just PAO is the 0w-40. I'm sure the MC oils are all PAO/Ester blends as well.
Bottom line though is it looks like Mobil "might" have just given in and down graded their product.
I'm not sure how accurate the Gas Chromotography process is in determining composition, but remember this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post701650 where German Castrol was supposedly tested and determined to be Group III, even though the body of evidence through BITOG testing showed it otherwise?
Could there be a discrepancy in results interpretation?
I would be severely disappointed if indeed XOM moves to Gr III for their "synthetic" formulations. If they did, then I'll move on to something else.
Could there be a discrepancy in results interpretation?
I would be severely disappointed if indeed XOM moves to Gr III for their "synthetic" formulations. If they did, then I'll move on to something else.
Thanks for calling buster. I have a feeling that all oil marketeers (Corps in general) are changing up their formulas depending on market conditions. Recall the "special" add pack that was suppose to be in Castrol GTX, and the boom, we start seeing random batches with the high sodium add pack.
Hi Buster,
Actually I ran the M1 EP 10W-30, but the sample was dated 12/04. It showed AN, PAO, POE, and a mineral oil cut. The AN content was larger than the PAO, and the POE was only around 2-3%. The mineral oil portion (presumably Group III) was larger than expected from additive carrier oil and possibly the largest of the base oils.
Gas Chromatography will easily distinguish PAOs at least up to 10+ cSt, as well as POEs up to about 1,500 molecular weight, and AN 5 & 12 cSt. Mineral oil distillation cuts show as a broad "pyramid" shape group of many peaks and the exact shape differs considerably with different viscosities and refiners. This makes quantification more difficult but the presence is clear.
G.C. can not only identify the type of base oil, but can also nail the exact grade or chemistry of esters, PAOs and ANs and the percentage of each. That, however, takes more work than I am willing to spend, so I am limiting the work to simply identifying the base oils with the relative ratio of each.
Be careful not to make too much of base oil chemistry. Performance is what matters and how the formulator gets there is their business. And don't under estimate the importance of the additives. I can formulate a great Group II based oil with extended OCIs, or a PAO/ester product that would seize your engine in minutes. That said, I also understand the feeling of betrayal from the purists, but life goes on and Group III ain't bad stuff.
Tom
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