M1 cleaner than conventional oil?

[MONKEYMAN]

I was told by 4 or 5 Saturn techs that Mobil 1 would help clean my 1.9 engine the best. They use Castrol at their dealership, but told me Mobil 1 was better. So, I have used it since last October and have noticed the engine is cleaner. If you have a older Saturn, it means doing weekly worship of the dipstick and paying close attention to the oil level. When I pulled my pvc at 8,000 miles, it was super clean using Mobil 1. First time that has happened on any car I have driven. The pvc usually has deposits, even with 3,000 OCI.

 

[Audi Junkie]

(typical response)...yeah, my old car ran better than new because I used Mobil 1 and the guy at the local garage said so. One day at 666,666 miles I topped off with a half-quart of Castrol and my engine exploded. It MUST have been the Castrol.

 

[Dan4510]

Audi,

This may not be a place where rigorous scientific method is the primary mode of inquiry, but there is great value in having a place like this where experience can be talked about and shared. Enough anecdotal information adds up to science--you should know this if you paid attention in research design or logic class.

I have used synthetic oils since they first came out due to the fact that they flowed immediately in an cold engine. I had a k-car that was widely known to die at 70k miles on m1 and it lived to 165k miles, sold it and it was still running. It burned a valve at 80k miles, decided to rering it and the original hone marks were still there and I put standard rings in it. Always did a 10k oci with filter change at 5k. Engine looked like the inside was cleaned with a steel wool pad it was so clean.

also built a 340 drag strip motor in 1989, ran it down the quarter at least 1200 times. Pulled the oil pan thinking i may need to re-ring it while putting the engine in another car. Same thing, hone marks still there and bearings looked like they had never been used. Engine so clean inside it looked burnished....this after 10 years and all the drag strip abuse plus many miles on the street wide open too.

Right now I have two slant six cars that i have done valve adjustments on, both have been on synthetic since I have owned them. Insides of valve covers no varnish, and no wear on valve stems. SLants last forever, but you usually have to adjust valves every 12k, i adjust mine every 30k and usually dont have to adjust, its just checking them.

Synthetic oil works, if you keep your cars for over 5 years the returns come in less repair, upkeep, and more reliability.

Audi, quit trolling!

Dan

[ July 14, 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[Jelly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Terry: "Yes the high end Group V oils and ester adds will clean for a while, due to the natural solvency of the esters. None of the others will clean to enough of an extent to make the difference that you are asking about."

---

I don't understand this as I've personally seen the amount of "cleaning" an HDEO does in a gas engine.

Gonna have to PM him about this...

 

[Pit Bull]

Never owned any vehicle long enough where the type of oil used would make any difference, regarding how long the engine lasted. They always lasted as long as I owned the vehicle. Cost of oil and service was also never a big consideration. I normally changed oil/filters anywhere between 3-5K miles, using synthetics and dino oils. Wonder how many of us own one vehicle long enough to make any difference? Figure all of the UOA and extended drain intervals that a number of the members on this site use is entertainment. Like Clinton said Your doing it because you can

 

[Blue99]

OK, back to the original question.

Here is a quote from Terry Dyson in a 12/02 thread:

quote:

---

Motor Oils are designed to lubricate and safely disburse unfiltered contaminates for a design period of time. NOT clean microscopic layers of carbonacous deposits. If that oil chemically attempts to clean it will not lubricate and disburse properly resulting in poor lubrication function and increased wear.

Yes the high end group 5 oils and ester adds will clean for a while,due to the natural solvency of the esters. None of the others will clean to enough of an extent to make the difference that you are asking about.

---

The full thread:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001013;p=2

So, part of the answer is the engine has to be clean at the initial fill of synthetic oil.

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

---

It may also come down to the amount of VII. Synthetic oils of a given weight tend to have less VII than their dino bretheren and there's less VII to break down/oxidize and make a mess of everything.

---

..finally, a theory emerges that makes sense.

All I'm saying is if a single fill of Mobil 1 and a filter costs the same as 2 fills of hydrocrack and 2 filters, the physical process of removing all contaminates by draining cannot be matched by a single fill of Mobil 1. (in allmost every street car, not dragsters) I am completely open to counterpoints, like Bror's. My position is a sound theory, can we address it without off-topic bable, personal attacks and the ENDLESS anecdotal "eveidence"? Am I trolling because I say someone might have wasted money on Mobil 1 and I point out the weakness in other arguments? (Yes, you are trolling--insert by Dan the mod)

quote:

---

If an owner FEELS GOOD changing Mobil-1 or even Redline on a 3/3 basis

---

Ha, ha, I guess that is "A" reason to use Mobil 1!
???

[ July 15, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[Bror Jace]

Terry: "Yes the high end Group V oils and ester adds will clean for a while, due to the natural solvency of the esters. None of the others will clean to enough of an extent to make the difference that you are asking about."

This gets back to my point above.

If Mobil 1 has done away with esters as part of the SuperSyn formulation, can we expect that it still retains the ability to keep an engine clean, the same ability most of us know it used to have??

I suppose the boron in M1 SS might have at least some of that ability ... but the same could be true with any oils containing boron ... which may be the way Chevron Supreme and newer Pennzoil formulations also seem to run very clean.

It may also come down to the amount of VII. Synthetic oils of a given weight tend to have less VII than their dino bretheren and there's less VII to break down/oxidize and make a mess of everything.

--- Bror Jace

 

[pbm]

I am a fan of Mobil 1 but I notice that many UOA's show high Iron levels. Does anyone have a
theory as to why?

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

---

Am I trolling because I say someone might have wasted money on Mobil 1 and I point out the weakness in other arguments? (Yes, you are trolling--insert by Dan the mod)

---

Mmm hmm, What is the function of the Forum again?

Suddenly, discourse is limited to random accounts of apparent visual condition of engines whose full service history is unknown. Let's not get too serious guys. "...yep, 90,000 miles on expensive synthetic and my engine looks and runs great." Implying what? That the thing would have siezed-up if that gritty acidic goo called dino oil was used. OK, a thousand dollars spent on synthetic was a great idea to make the owner "feel good". Right.

Money well-spent.

What kind of major service could you do at 90,000 miles with the money saved on synth?

 

[Matt89]

quote:

---

Mmm hmm, What is the function of the Forum again?

---

JMO, mostly to reinforce people's obsession with 'perfect lubrication' so that they will purchase expensive oil, additives (I'm sorry, 'cleaners'), and analysis services.

Fortunately as a byproduct of this I have learned a lot of tricks/tips about working on cars.

quote:

---

What kind of major service could you do at 90,000 miles with the money saved on synth?

---

Bingo.

 

[Dan4510]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:

quote:

---

Am I trolling because I say someone might have wasted money on Mobil 1 and I point out the weakness in other arguments? (Yes, you are trolling--insert by Dan the mod)

---

Mmm hmm, What is the function of the Forum again?

Suddenly, discourse is limited to random accounts of apparent visual condition of engines whose full service history is unknown. Let's not get too serious guys. "...yep, 90,000 miles on expensive synthetic and my engine looks and runs great." Implying what? That the thing would have siezed-up if that gritty acidic goo called dino oil was used. OK, a thousand dollars spent on synthetic was a great idea to make the owner "feel good". Right.

Money well-spent.

What kind of major service could you do at 90,000 miles with the money saved on synth?

---

Audi,

You seem yet to understand that avoiding major repairs is part of why synthetic is used. To me its money well spent if it keeps me from having to tear an engine apart, I keep my cars for as long as they will last. Just the aggravation avoided by not having expensive repairs is a good thing.

Which would i rather do, save money and use dino, then have some half-wit "fix" my car, or pay the same or less to keep motoring so the half-wit can "fix" someone else's car.

And, yes you are trolling again!

Dan

 

[crashz]

You have me thinking now Audi. Why should I be using synthetics? My truck has almost 90,000 miles on it now and has had a steady diet of synthetic oil. The only dino that I have used was the factory fill and some Penz for an AutoRX treatment.

Simply put: Cold starting and peace of mind.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Is it trolling to mention that my wife's Audi Coupe never saw synth before we got it. 165,000 miles on cheap dino and it never needed any engine repair(especially $1500 worth like synthetic oil would have cost) EXCEPT a new rubber valve-cover gasket. Can anyone here GUARANTEE she would not have needed the $10 v/c gasket if the original owner used $1,500 worth "synthetic"? lol. No problems or, God forbid, varnish in 185k.

$30 a fill X {180,000mi/3000oci}=$1,800 yep, that would have been a great investment in a car that is worth little more. $.10c a miles for oil? You could lease a car for that much! ...but I guess the oil makes you feel good.

PS I don't use half-wits for car repairs, that seems to be an American car mechanic phenomonon.

Dan, do you use synthetic in your lawnmower too?

 

[Matt_S]

I've told myself to stay away from this thread, but I can't resist. This will be my only post, though.

$30 to have Iffy Lube change the oil using a high schooler, dino and whatever cheapo filter they use vs. $30 to do it myself using synthetic with a longer interval kinda' works in my favor, doesn't it?

 

[Virtuoso]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
$30 a fill X {180,000mi/3000oci}=$1,800 yep, that would have been a great investment in a car that is worth little more. $.10c a miles for oil? You could lease a car for that much! ...but I guess the oil makes you feel good.

---

If you're only using a good synthetic for 3k miles, you're wasting your money as it is. A 7k interval with filter would yield an approximate cost of $680.

 

[Amkeer]

I am pasting the below from another post since we are crunching numbers. It would cost me more to use Castrol as compared to Mobil1.


I value my time too! If I change synth at 6 months or 6000 miles it will cost me $100 with Mobil1 per year 2 vehicles. If a person makes $35 an hour and the changes take 1.0 hours including time to pick up the filter, etc.. Thats 4 hours per year at a total of $140. $140+$100=$240 per year.

Total $240

A 3 month, 3000 mile routine will cost me $104 per year using Castrol GTX and a Wix filter. Thats 8 changes at $13 since I do both vehicles. Add 8 hours labor is $280. $280+$104=$384

Total $384

You say wouldn't it be better to have it done and earn the $35 an hour? No! I do not let anyone work on my vehicles unless I absolutely don't have a choice!

You say I can use cheaper oil and filters and it will cost less for the dino. No! I am comfortable with GTX and used it over 20 years!

The choice is yours.

Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic SS 5W-30.
ODO 9400 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 91400 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer

 

[2019CRVlx]

Amkeer,


So obviously that member feels GTX at 3k OCI better protection than M1 at 6k OCI.

Is that the consensus of this board?

 

[Virtuoso]

I belive that either is a good strategy. Depends on how often you like changing your oil

 

[Alan]

Heck no!

I like M1 in my 1ZZ application with 5-7K intervals.Heck,I've taken it up to 10K before with no negative effects.

I love internally clean engines and the feeling I get knowing that I really have a top notch oil under the hood even if it's in a Corolla

.

The only real downside to using a real quality synthetic is the price.

I don't find the price to be a problem,like doing less oil changes and knowing I am getting great protection.

My engine really runs great and is really spotless under the valve cover.

I am