M1 AFE 0W16, 5178 mi OCI, 2021 Toyota Sienna Hybrid A25A-FXS

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I mean, we have a lawsuit by the Chinese government against Honda for this very problem, it's a REAL problem (fuel dilution).

That's wonderful, but that doesn't address the issue about this level of fuel dilution.

Other than perhaps crappier than normal ring seal due to seating, what are you implying the relationship is between the 265F flashpoint and break-in?

PPM metals in a UOA are not a substitute for tear-downs, which has been discussed many, MANY times on here.

OK, but unless you also have a 265F flashpoint I'm unsure what you think your long OCI is proving here? Are you also going to perform some tear-downs for us?
I am aware of the issue of fuel dilution in CRV. This is a Sienna. The remedy is a slightly shorter OCI. And a flashpoint that creeps back up towards threshhold. Severe service. 5k mile OCI.

You might recall positing concerns in my Insight about oxidative thickening. OCIs were well over 10k miles. With the 0W8 of course.

In my case, the plan is 500k miles and beyond. Sorry. No tear down.

As a side note, I did almost purchase precisely the same vehicle as OP. Basic hypermiling would have been in the cards. The second row seats are not easily removed. That swayed me away in part.
 
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With all due respect, 10 to 12K oil change intervals are a sales gimmick. If the oil looks dirty, it is. And it is contaminated with raw fuel and burned fuel, along with some oxidation and dirt.
Poor fools will wait 10,000 or more miles because they don't know any better, and they don't have much experience as an engine mechanic.
I would say change it at 5K unless you install a bypass filter system. And use a top cylinder additive in the fuel.
 
I am aware of the issue of fuel dilution in CRV. This is a Sienna. The remedy is a slightly shorter OCI. And a flashpoint that creeps back up towards threshhold. Severe service. 5k mile OCI.

You might recall positing concerns in my Insight about oxidative thickening. OCIs were well over 10k miles. With the 0W8 of course.

In my case, the plan is 500k miles and beyond. Sorry. No tear down.

As a side note, I did almost purchase precisely the same vehicle as OP. Basic hypermiling would have been in the cards. The second row seats are not easily removed. That swayed me away in part.
And we were saying that remedy is shorter OCI.
UOA is still junk. We discussed xxxxxxx times what is the purpose of UOA.
Also, he should install block heater.
 
And we were saying that remedy is shorter OCI.
UOA is still junk. We discussed xxxxxxx times what is the purpose of UOA.
Also, he should install block heater.
I will go with my personal experiences, which include over 4 million miles on local roads and highways. And I will listen to Car Care Nut, the Certified Toyota Master Mechanic with an amazingly open and transparent podcast. I do hope my opinions and experiences are helpful to the OP.
 
I will go with my personal experiences, which include over 4 million miles on local roads and highways. And I will listen to Car Care Nut, the Certified Toyota Master Mechanic with an amazingly open and transparent podcast. I do hope my opinions and experiences are helpful to the OP.
Courier service is very different than the average family use. Also, you are in a mild climate area.
 
Courier service is very different than the average family use. Also, you are in a mild climate area.
True. My conditions are as favorable as it gets.
Let's cut to the chase. You know Toyota's attention to detail and their conservative nature. Is there a FSB about issues with the vehicles using this drive train ? I may just join that RAV 4 forum and go bark at them.
 
I am aware of the issue of fuel dilution in CRV. This is a Sienna.
I don't really care what it is, it could be a Murcielago, the issue isn't with the brand or model, it's with the level of fuel being observed, which is very similar to the issue Honda has been having and, in general, is a DI issue, though some are clearly more susceptible to severe manifestations of the issue than others. This is very severe!
The remedy is a slightly shorter OCI. And a flashpoint that creeps back up towards threshhold. Severe service. 5k mile OCI.
Yes... that's what we've been saying. The OP may also want to go with a slightly heavier oil if this level of dilution continues, just to keep viscosity within the range that Toyota has spec'd.
You might recall positing concerns in my Insight about oxidative thickening. OCIs were well over 10k miles. With the 0W8 of course.
OK, but this is the completely opposite issue, so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up?
In my case, the plan is 500k miles and beyond. Sorry. No tear down.
Well, that's unfortunate. It's an interesting experiment to watch.
 
Courier service is very different than the average family use. Also, you are in a mild climate area.
Yep, usage profile plays a huge role. I will add that Vancouver is quite temperate for Canada, I was going to call out the location too, but the OP isn't in Winnipeg or even the GTA, they aren't getting the wild temperature swings the rest of the country sees.
 
Car care nut is a good resource, but he cannot describe every use case. He also is no tribology expert. Even so, he advocates 5k oil changes all the time (the SEVERE service interval prescribed by Toyota).
When my lady bought "Toyota care plus" maintenance package (A25-FKS non hybrid), the package has you come in and change oil at 5k - which is interesting since the free oil changes are only 12mo/10k. Now I change at 5k and use 5w20 synthetic out of convenience. No noticable difference in MPG, performance, or fuel smell but the vehicle isnt short tripped.
 
I don't really care what it is, it could be a Murcielago, the issue isn't with the brand or model, it's with the level of fuel being observed, which is very similar to the issue Honda has been having and, in general, is a DI issue, though some are clearly more susceptible to severe manifestations of the issue than others. This is very severe!

Yes... that's what we've been saying. The OP may also want to go with a slightly heavier oil if this level of dilution continues, just to keep viscosity within the range that Toyota has spec'd.

OK, but this is the completely opposite issue, so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up?

Well, that's unfortunate. It's an interesting experiment to watch.
The great Car Care Nut recommends NOT increasing viscosity.

I differentiate in drive trains. Honda 1.5L with or without DI and with or without Turbo. Murcielago. lol. Grand Cherokee. lolol. Toyota D-4S. Camry. Tacoma. Venza. Lexus UX. Sienna. GR Corolla. Yaris Cross. Corolla Cross etc.

It will take a few more years to get long term data points on say, Camry Hybrid taxi cabs.

I expect OP to later give his Sienna to his grandchild, and in fine mechanical shape.
 
I will go with my personal experiences, which include over 4 million miles on local roads and highways. And I will listen to Car Care Nut, the Certified Toyota Master Mechanic with an amazingly open and transparent podcast. I do hope my opinions and experiences are helpful to the OP.
We are blessed here that you are the "only" one with such a great experience, and the rest of us should get a "new driver sticker."
So, can I send the UOA sample to Car Care Nut?
I had a certified Toyota Master Technician trying to convince me that my transmission does not have a replaceable pan/filter. So, I would not bet on that certification.
 
The great Car Care Nut recommends NOT increasing viscosity.

I differentiate in drive trains. Honda 1.5L with or without DI and with or without Turbo. Murcielago. lol. Grand Cherokee. lolol. Toyota D-4S. Camry. Tacoma. Venza. Lexus UX. Sienna. GR Corolla. Yaris Cross. Corolla Cross etc.

It will take a few more years to get long term data points on say, Camry Hybrid taxi cabs.

I expect OP to later give his Sienna to his grandchild, and in fine mechanical shape.
Considering the quality of my SIenna, it will be long on junkyard while my BMW still does track circles.
 
We are blessed here that you are the "only" one with such a great experience, and the rest of us should get a "new driver sticker."
So, can I send the UOA sample to Car Care Nut?
I had a certified Toyota Master Technician trying to convince me that my transmission does not have a replaceable pan/filter. So, I would not bet on that certification.
Do I detect a bit of snark ? I think I do.

I would hope that my level of personal experience, shared here, would be of value to BITOG.

BTW Car Care Nut is no ordinary Certified Toyota Mechanic. As an example, he actually recommends the drain and fill of " lifetime" transmission fluids on the 60s.

:cool:
 
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Do I detect a bit of snark ? I think I do.

I would hope that my level of personal experience would be of value to BITOG.

BTW Car Care Nut is no ordinary Certified Toyota Mechanic. As an example, he actually recommends the drain and fill of " lifetime" transmission fluids on the 60s.

:cool:
Of course, it is a snarky comment.
When flashpoint drops to 265 from some 430-445, and fuel dilution is that high, you could rack up 4 million miles in addition to the current 4 million miles, and it does not change the fact that UOA is a junk.
 
The great Car Care Nut recommends NOT increasing viscosity.
That's fantastic, I really don't care what he says. The only ways to counteract the effects of fuel dilution are by early changing and by increasing the initial viscosity so that one stays inside the envelope during the OCI schedule.
I differentiate in drive trains. Honda 1.5L with or without DI and with or without Turbo. Murcielago. lol. Grand Cherokee. lolol. Toyota D-4S. Camry. Tacoma. Venza. Lexus UX. Sienna. GR Corolla. Yaris Cross. Corolla Cross etc.
Sweet Christ. The point isn't the drivetrain, it's the fuel dilution! Your emphasis that it's a Toyota van like this is some great gotcha misses the point by a country mile. The reality is that it doesn't matter if it's an Audi Q5, some base model Kia or a Gallardo, if it has DI and is diluting at this level, that's a problem and this must be accounted for in some manner, that's the point I was making.
It will take a few more years to get long term data points on say, Camry Hybrid taxi cabs.
And that means what exactly in the context of this thread? Taxi's are constant use vehicles and are some of the highest mileage accruing vehicles on the road. That's not applicable to this conversation.
I expect OP to later give his Sienna to his grandchild, and in fine mechanical shape.
That's just silly, it could be totalled by a Kenworth tomorrow. Allusions to faith in long-term durability regardless of the level of contamination we see here is doing nobody any favours and we are approaching the level of absurdity at this juncture.
 
The great Car Care Nut recommends NOT increasing viscosity.
I directly asked Car Care Nut about using 0W-20. He said “Hi! I think 0w20 should be ok if that’s all that’s available. But people who had issues ran excessively high weights like 10w40 and higher”
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Car Care Nut says use 0W16 and go with 5k OCI. This is a podcasting Certified Toyota mechanic, who has extensive experience taking apart and rebuilding this exact engine.
The Sienna Hybrid launched in 2020. If someone is rebuilding those engines 2 years later, that should answer all our questions ;)

A Sienna ain't no Camry... weight/load alone will make a difference on fuel dilution.

DI, low starting viscosity, auto stop technology, short trips, 87 octane fuel = too much fuel dilution for a 0w16 to manage.

Engine manufacturers aren't perfect, as evidence from history.

Put 0w30 in it, and never look back. Even if that 30 weight gets to ~6-7 cst, I would be ok with that.
 
OP, I would like to add the suggestion, as others have, that you tske your Sienna out and floor the heck out of it, from time to time.

Bearing wear is the big concern. Again, do 5k mile OCIs with 0W16 SP GF-6B. Watch especially the trending with Copper.
 
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