M1 0w40 API SL + Napa Gold filter - Good for 7500 miles in my 1.8T???

[wavinwayne]

Below is a copy of the UOA data from my '00 VW GTI 1.8T engine approx. 1 year ago. This was a 5100 mile (12 weeks) run on M1 0w40 API SL & an OEM sized M1 oil filter. Blackstone commented that I should have no trouble extending my OCI if I chose to do so.

Blackstone Report from 3-23-05
Total vehicle mileage at that time - 46,100 miles
Miles on oil - 5100

aluminum 2
chromium 0
iron 7
copper 2
lead 0
tin 0
molybdenum 57
nickel 0
manganese 0
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 0
boron 117
silicon 2
sodium 5
calcium 1945
magnesium 13
phosphorus 594
zinc 649
barium 0

sus visc@ 210 f 62.2
flashpoint 355°
fuel 1.0%
antifreeze 0.0
water 0.0
insolubles 0.4

I took the above sample cold. I think that might have played a role in the 1% fuel.

I want to extend my next OCI out to 7500 miles using more M1 0w40 API SL. The filter will be an over-sized Napa Gold #1191, which is equivalent to the oversized VW 1.8T filter #068 115 561B.

I drive all highway, & do approx. 450 miles a week. Does anybody see any reason why 7500 miles (16-17 weeks) would be too long for my engine with this oil/filter combo?

 

[Mr Nice]

7500 miles for M1 doing all that highway driving is very easy on the oil.

 

[Ugly3]

7,500 miles will be a piece of cake for M1 and a NAPA Gold.

 

[Alan]

I think you could easily do 7.5K with your style of driving.We all fret too much here!

BTW,how did M1 look on the dipstick after 5K miles of use?

 

[Mud]

WW, I can see where you're coming from in asking about extending the OCI on a good quality oil filter.

But as an owner of a vehicle with the 1.8T, any extension of the OCI over 5K miles makes me nervous. For me, the engine oil capacity is just too small at 4.2 qts (with larger oil filter) and the turbo.

I just think that it's cheap insurance to maintain an OCI for these engines that is admittedly well below the threshold. Looking at the cost in the long run vs the possible downside, I stick with a 4500-5000 OCI.

Interesting to see what the concensus is.

 

[wavinwayne]

Alan,

Since the dipstick itself is black, I have to wipe the oil onto a rag to get a visual. After 5100 miles, the oil looked very dark brown.

Mud,

4.2 qt's with the larger filter?...you must have a Passat 1.8T or an Audi A4. The sump capacity on my GTI is 4.3 qt's with an OEM-sized filter; approx 4.75 quarts if I use the larger OEM filter.

If I recall correctly, the Passat & A4 1.8T sludge problems happened ONLY in cars that ran the full 10k miles or more on dino, & did so repeatedly. I have not seen a single case of one sludging up on VW approved oils, even going 10k miles between changes.

So basically, my thinking was this:
If the 1.8T in the Passat & Audi A4 could go 10k between changes on 3.9 qt's of VW approved oil using an OEM sized filter, then 7.5k on 4.75 qt's. + a larger filter would be a walk in the park.

 

[JAG]

If we knew what the TBN was in that above UOA it would really help. I think I must note that it sounds like the good above guys aren't 1.8T owners and seem to not be fully aware of the abuse this engine puts on oil. After 5000 miles is when this oil (and many other 40 weight oils)in this engine is mostly done sheering and afterward it thickens up from oxidation - that indicates that the oil is fighting a tough battle after 5000 miles. If there is fuel dilution again that will make it even more difficult. Maybe a good plan is for you to send off an sample at 6000 miles, but not drain it and go from there.

 

[wavinwayne]

-EDIT TO CORRECT ERROR IN MY LAST POST-

I have been informed that the VW Passat 1.8T has always specified a 5k mile OCI.

 

[JAG]

This ought to help:
10k miles: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000987
TBN = 1 (skanked!)

8.5k miles:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002889
TBN = 2.2 (getting there!)

So it looks like 7500 miles OCI with this oil in this engine will be ok assuming nothing bad happens (excess dirt ingestion or fuel dilution). I personally don't like to run oils to their last breath (TBN < 2 IMO) but that's just me.

 

[blmqzjc]

You can kiss your sludge warranty goodbye if you go past 5K OCI, even though I agree with most of the posters that you could safely do so, in YOUR circumstance.

It all depends on whether you care about that warranty, and can document all your OCI's to date. If not, I'd go with what the lab recommends.

BTW, posters on other forums have complained about sludging 1.8Ts with relatively low mileage AND proper OCI's - it's just a sludge prone engine. I know - I got one - but thankfully discovered ARX before any serious sludging occurred.

 

[thunderchild]

I have the 1.8T - AMU engine in my 01 TT. It takes 5 qts. with a MANN filter. I was wondering myself about going longer than 5000 mile OCI's. They do it in Europe. I will wait until M1 T&S makes it appearance again. I have not seen any in a few weeks at Wally world.

 

[wavinwayne]

blmqzjc,

The GTI is not covered under any type of extended sludge warranty, but even if it were, mine would have been voided long ago.....Keep reading.

My GTI has 63k miles on it now. From 15k to 36k, I used cheap 5w30 dino oil in this car. On two occasions, I went 6500 miles on cheap 5w30 dino & a Fram EG filter. Even with that unspeakable act of oil-neglect, the top end of the engine still looks amazingly clean. Who knows, maybe it's full of coked oil inside the turbo lines.

FWIW, from 36k to 63k, I've used only GC & M1 0w40 + VW OEM, M1, & Pure One oil filters.

 

[Volvohead]

I agree with some of the others. A TBN here would be of further guidance as to how much is left. But, as expected, it has considerably thinned down at 5K, into the lower end of the 30 weight range.

While I do like this 0W-40 very much, it is not my first choice for longer OCIs in turbos, especially those with histories for being harder on oil. It appears to thicken back up as it oxidizes. But that can be a very difficult line to walk in some turbo situations.

If it is any comparison, a fellow R owner who UOA'ed this last year showed the 0W-40 pretty much done a little past 4K. When I run it in my R, I know it shears down heavily by 2,500, as the turbo spool up dramatically quickens. It's the only oil that does that in this car. I consider it a 0W-30. I'll still run it, but never past 4K.

My guess is that this 0W-40 could go further in your 1.8 if you pushed it. But that raises the question: why even do so when there are safer choices at longer intervals? It's a turbo and a known sludger if lubrication mistakes are made.

Don't rely on the Porsche example as proof of long OCI performance. Few engines, and yours in particular, run oil capacities that generous.

Going much past 5K, I would have a higher comfort level with M1 5W-40 here, VW specifications aside. Especially where you live, I think the 5W-40 a better summer choice.

 

[wavinwayne]

Thanks for everyone's opinions & suggestions. I've weighed them all & have decided to go ahead with my 7500 mile OCI.

I'll probably do a UOA, including TBN after 7500 miles. I'll also do a few blotter tests along the way.

FWIW, last summer I ran GC + a Mobil 1 oil filter for 7250 miles in the GTI (no UOA). The GC still looked good on a "blotter test" at 7k miles, but I know that doesn't really tell me much.

 

[Mud]

WW, yes I own an 02 Audi A4 1.8T, which has that 4.2 or 4.3 qt capacity w/ bigger filter.
At 70K miles now, top end of engine has a little discoloration, but no deposits or gunk. I attribute that to NOT following the dealer recommended 10K OCI with whatever oil they use (probably dino as many posters have noted). Oil has always been M1 0W-40 or Syntec 5W-40 with approx 4500 mile OCI's.

Please post your UOA at the end of your 7500 mile OCI.

 

[austai]

All this begs the question, is there another oil readily available in the USA that CAN do 7.5K or 10K OCI's in this engine without a problem?

 

[Palut]

If you're going to void your warranty anyway by going longer than 5k miles, run M1 5W-40 (when it comes back on the market). While M1 0W-40 should hit 7500 miles, there does seem to be some doubt about its ability to do so. M1 5W-40 should hit 7500 miles no problem. Let your UOAs be your guide.

 

[austai]

Since 5w-40 is discontinued, what other oils will hit 7500 miles no problem?

 

[wavinwayne]

"Since 5w-40 is discontinued, what other oils will hit 7500 miles no problem?"

I think Amsoil 5w40 would be good for 7500 miles in this engine, IMHO.....especially with an oversized filter.

 

[Palut]

Rumor has it that M1 5W-40 will be back on the market in February. Its supposed to be the same oil with a new name.