LSPI (SN+ / Dex 1 G2) oils in older vehicles

[92saturnsl2]

What is the general consensus regarding the performance of newer anti-LSPI oils in older engines that don't need/require it?

The change in formulations has been quick (to my knowledge, but admittedly I haven't had to replenish the stash for quite a while) and widespread-- most of the common oils have transitioned to a magnesium/calcium additive package and sodium has all but disappeared as an additive.

I've been picking up oil sales here and there trying to get a few oil changes worth on the shelf and most all the oils I'm buying are the newer SN+ and/or Dex1 gen 2 variety which have the newer formulations. None of my vehicles are prone to LSPI, so that left me wondering if I'm better served with an older SN oil (which you can still find here and there) or if the newer SN+ / Dex1 Gen 2 oils have any benefits or even compromises when it comes to performance in older engines. Curious if anyone has noticed a trend in recent UOAs suggesting that the newer formulas are working better or worse in applications that aren't affected by LSPI.

 

[SZR48207]

Good question. Hope us non-DI owners aren't getting screwed over for the sake of DI engine owners.

 

[bbhero]

I believe the newer oils work better... Having added magnesium to the SN plus oils has helped oils maintain total base numbers in used oil analysis I have seen. This helps guarantee no corrosion takes place and that newer oils are now even better suited to keep it from happening even longer.

Newer oils are using the same or even a bit more molybdenum in them. Havoline high mileage has near 200 ppm and Quaker State is in that range too. Boron has increased has well in a good number of oils too. With oils having 100-200 ppm of boron in them. Titanium is now being utilized in certain oil packages as well. Typically 30-50 ppm of titanium is found in Valvoline for example.

Zinc and phos may well be down from earlier oils. But other additives mentioned above more than make up for the decrease in those elements.

Plus the newer standards are helping in there being better base oils used in newer oils.

My car certainly does not suffer from LSPI being it is a 2008 port injected v6 VQ motor. But I believe the newer oils certainly are working very, very well in my 2008 car with 320,000+ miles.

 

[ka9mnx]

I was wondering how long it would take for this conversation to come up.

 

[kschachn]

The “LSPI friendly” oils would be API SP or SN PLUS, and are backwards compatible with all previous API licenses. It should work as well as or better.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Then why did it take the proliferation of (T)-GDI engines to bring about the change in formulation? In most instances calcium has been cut nearly in half and sodium is all but gone. I smell compromise but without hard data, that's just opinion.

Castrol had used a formula similar to the current ones (SN+ and newer) back in the SN period and before, maybe theirs was better all along?

I've also noticed a trend of increasing viscosity in the newer oils compared to pre-SN+. I wonder what the significance of that is.

 

[bbhero]

Because... The people involved in looking into LSPI came to the conclusion that sodium and high level of calcium in previous oils helped cause LSPI...

This why the calcium was cut from 2,500+ ppm... Down to typically less than 1,500 ppm and some oils are 1,000 ppm or slightly less than that... And sodium cut out all together. Due to the thinking being Ca+ and Na+ caused or helped initiate LSPI.

And why magnesium was added to help replace alkalinity and detergency lost by cutting calcium by such a high degree... And why molybdenum became typical and increased in a number of oils.