Do you yell at people to get off your lawn? You are retired after all.
LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!
- Status
Justin,I should've asked the question about why a no vi shear stable oil was selected & left out the other nonsense about my incorrect assumptions about HPL being the "Clear winner" etc. I do try to have a "Give them the benefit of the doubt" attitude with most of who I deal with but it did not happen in this scenario unfortunately. It did come off as implying that the test was presented as not equal but that has been my own misunderstanding of the testing perimeters. I did have some concerns, that is true & I suppose I have a skeptical nature for commercial business/advertising so I kind of have a cautious approach to what I'm being shown. As you well know some businesses take advantage of our "Ignorance" to promote a sale. I need to iron out more clearly on how to word my questions better for certain. That was not right of me to assume a "rigging" of this test & I sincerely apologize for it. All of us here really appreciate your participation & sponsorship of this oil community. Let me repeat that last part in a different way. You're involvement in these LSJr video's has promoted our ability to post them here on BITOG. LSJr being an oil enthusiast, just as you at HPL are, & we are and can be a great community experience. I do not want to make assuming statements that paint HPL in a bad light & that really wasn't what I really wanted to do to be honest. You all don't deserve that at all. I hope that you can put this as my own stupidity & no reflection of what you all have done here. You all have done an excellent job at capturing our enthusiasm for oil as it is for you all in your products. I've never claimed your oil was bad like some here bash other brands. Actually to the contrary many times stated you all have excellent products & you've been responsive to providing information on your website when requested. You don't need me to tell you how hard you work & I do like the opportunity that you've allowed members here to get discounts, like the July 4th sale, to ease the access to your great offerings. The great thing about me is that I have an ability to recognize, albeit eventually, when I've done something wrong. I was in the wrong here & it won't happen again. I called HPL today & spoke to a sweet lady named debby? to personally apologize to HPL today. I may not be in the best position to ask but please Keep doing what you do for us along w/LSJr. For me & some others here It is the exciting material us oil heads need. I thank you for your time.
Have a great day!
Justin
Thank you very much for this. We do try hard to do the right thing. I appreciate you clearing the air.
You are very correct as there is definitely a lot of smoke and mirrors issues in the oil world. That is a big reason that we try to be forthcoming and as transparent as we can be without disclosing exactly what we do. For that reason I guess I am a little passionate about it. I felt a little bad after my post back to you and I once again appreciate your reply.
David
dnewton3
Staff member
Ironically, they achieve just the opposite; they promote misunderstanding and hysteria. For Pete's sake, he called this one the "Silent Engine Killer"! Like that's not going to elicit confusion and a mild case of panic in the general population who know nothing of lubricants? It's not like he's ONLY posting these videos for the exclusive BITOG audience (who at least have a minimum basic understanding of lubricants). No - he's puttin' it out there on YT for every Tom, Richard and Harry to watch. Like it or not, he's causing more confusion in his effort to educate folks.
Rather than use the video as an opportunity to educate folks on the concept of MOFT, etc, he just implies that more vis is always better. It's not a stretch to say that his video leads the general viewer to believe that without significant viscosity, the engine will be "silently killed" in short order. His hyperbole isn't education; it's clickbait hysteria. He does discuss the differences between the various VII components and their effects, but it gets lost in translation. His credibility would be much greater if he'd tone it down a bit, and stick to a good script which focuses on education without excitement. I think it's difficult for him; his personality certainly leads one to believe that in his world, the sky is always falling.
Last edited:
dnewton3
Staff member
Allow me to illuminate my point using some of LSJr's own video titles and captions :
- How to prevent LSPI from destroying your engine!
- Which one of these filters RUINED this engine?
- The truth about oil change intervals and analysis ...
- EXPOSED: The Truth about Pennzoil and Quaker State
- If you love these additives, DON'T watch this video
- Don't Use Viscosity Modifiers; how viscosity modifiers can destroy your motor
- Viscosity breakdown: the silent engine killer revealed!
Just to name a few.
And did ya catch the irony of those last two? How VIs can destroy your motor, and how Vis breakdown will kill your engine ...
Plus, he often uses the word "truth" as if his opinion is the only one that is accurate and correct; the inference taken that any disagreement with his position is untruthful. And listening to him rant and ramble on in every video certainly leads the noob to believe that death is imminent to one's engine if LSJr's advice isn't heeded to the n'th degree.
Nah - there's no hyperbole or sensationalism going on here.
- How to prevent LSPI from destroying your engine!
- Which one of these filters RUINED this engine?
- The truth about oil change intervals and analysis ...
- EXPOSED: The Truth about Pennzoil and Quaker State
- If you love these additives, DON'T watch this video
- Don't Use Viscosity Modifiers; how viscosity modifiers can destroy your motor
- Viscosity breakdown: the silent engine killer revealed!
Just to name a few.
And did ya catch the irony of those last two? How VIs can destroy your motor, and how Vis breakdown will kill your engine ...
Plus, he often uses the word "truth" as if his opinion is the only one that is accurate and correct; the inference taken that any disagreement with his position is untruthful. And listening to him rant and ramble on in every video certainly leads the noob to believe that death is imminent to one's engine if LSJr's advice isn't heeded to the n'th degree.
Nah - there's no hyperbole or sensationalism going on here.
Last edited:
Serious question would you like to have his content banned as just about any other information you don’t seem to agree with or you don’t think has any value.
It’s yes or no
dnewton3
Staff member
There's tons of content I don't agree with; that doesn't mean it should be "banned". Banning comes from rules violations. None of what I've seen in LSJr's videos comes close to being ban-worthy. It may be cringe-worthy IMO, but not ban-worthy.
But because it's on the 'net, and it's present on BITOG, I have every right to critique and criticize it, just as others are allowed to praise it.
I’m not going to fault someone for what they title their video or what is in the video thumbnail. It’s not their fault what generates views and what is promoted by the YouTube algorithm. The reality is that his channel is a part of his business, and it would be foolish to do something other than what was proven to be effective at generating income.
The other thing to consider here is who is mainly watching this? The reality is that most of his viewers have less understanding/knowledge of oil than most of the members on this site, and to be honest, even most of the members on this site (myself included), know little about the formulation and production of oil. So a good approach to video making would be to cover the topic in as great a detail as possible to be understood by the most people possible. Catering to the extremes (the lubrication experts and the car illiterate) will do little for a channel.
So is his content a net positive or net negative? Well, he’s certainly speaking rather broadly at times, and the important distinctions can get glossed over. However, try to dive into too much detail and you risk losing a bulk of your audience. On the other hand, I can’t see how his content could possibly be causing harm. Sure, people who solely base their understanding of engine oil from his content may form some incorrect assumptions, but I’d argue that no source of information is perfect. However, will they finish his videos knowing at least a little more about engine oil, its functions and importance in healthy engine operations? For the vast majority of his audience, I’d venture to say that’s a pretty safe assumption.
The other thing to consider here is who is mainly watching this? The reality is that most of his viewers have less understanding/knowledge of oil than most of the members on this site, and to be honest, even most of the members on this site (myself included), know little about the formulation and production of oil. So a good approach to video making would be to cover the topic in as great a detail as possible to be understood by the most people possible. Catering to the extremes (the lubrication experts and the car illiterate) will do little for a channel.
So is his content a net positive or net negative? Well, he’s certainly speaking rather broadly at times, and the important distinctions can get glossed over. However, try to dive into too much detail and you risk losing a bulk of your audience. On the other hand, I can’t see how his content could possibly be causing harm. Sure, people who solely base their understanding of engine oil from his content may form some incorrect assumptions, but I’d argue that no source of information is perfect. However, will they finish his videos knowing at least a little more about engine oil, its functions and importance in healthy engine operations? For the vast majority of his audience, I’d venture to say that’s a pretty safe assumption.
I agree the titles are click-baity or cringey but the videos are fine. Have you watched them? They're fine. And factual. If you have watched your most hated enemy it seems you just aren't a fan of his energy and/or delivery. You and I are just different. I watch his videos (like other videos) at 1.5x speed so in my head he is a really hyper dude. I watched at regular speed recently and it seemed like he had a stroke because of how much I can handle his "usual" energy.
The oil additive was a good one. It's true that people are putting additives that have no "label" and they have no clue what they're adding or at best diluting with. It's modern snake oil. If Lake can stop a few people from wasting money and doing more harm than good then good on him he's doing God's Work.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes; I've watched several. Hence, my objection to many of them. Are there facts in them? Absolutely yes. Is there also a bunch of opinion and hyperbole? Yes.
First of all, I don't "hate" him. It is true ... I don't like his delivery. I've stated this many times. He could benefit from a professional production company to help him learn how to polish his presentations:
- don't roll off-the-cuff; he's not good at it (disorganized and repetitive); improvisation is a skill few people do well at
- have a script and stick to it; practice it and use cue cards if necessary
- don't yell at the audience; occasionally imparting inflection into one's voice for emphasis is fine - but he simply gets overly loud and exaggerated
- don't take 5 minutes to say what can be said in 50 seconds
- etc
It's my opinion that his passion for the topics he presents overrides his ability to put together a professional presentation.
I would agree; that was one of his better ones.
To be very clear, and to reiterate what I've said before, I do believe he is very knowledgeable and accomplished in his field. I have respect for him in this regard.
What I take issue with is how he misleads folks in his generalizations and exaggerated statements. I completely expect this kind of behavior from Kilmer and PF; they are just YT monetized rubbish. But LSJr has the opportunity to rise above and truly educate, but he fails at it. One expects more from an "expert".
Ironically, he could talk at a much deeper level to the BITOG masses, and he'd probably be more at ease and make more sense. But when he tries to "dumb down" his info to the general public, he goes too far and misses the mark by stating things in a manner which are easily misunderstood or glossed over.
*elicit
/tongue in cheek
#forgivemeofficerIchosepoorly
**suspending my privileges for the evening
But I agree with your point. 99% of YT’ers may possibly freak out because of his résumé and video production, when literally all they have to worry about is:
1. Does the oil that goes in my sump meet the OEM recommendation; and,
2. Am I changing it at OEM recommended interval or less.
dnewton3
Staff member
Good catch; I'll go fix it.*elicit
/tongue in cheek
#forgivemeofficerIchosepoorly
**suspending my privileges for the evening
Fat thumbs + small phone + auto-correct = OOPS!
It's for working with YouTube's algorithm. If you make boring titles and thumbnails etc you'll never get found and end up with like 5 subscribers after 2 years. It's awful, but it is what it is. He's just trying to make his channel work.
Eh, like I said we're two people with different viewpoints. IMHO he's fine. Production is fine. Yeah it seems like he's solo putting it together. This isn't national TV or PBS. The only thing I'm paying with is an ad I skip through. I mean really it's a vehicle - pun intended - for his UOA business, Speediagnostix.
Can you point out besides the titles what's hyperbolic and misleading?
dnewton3
Staff member
This is a bit of a roundabout way of illustrating my point, but consider these two examples ...
Tom Grieve (channel is his name)
Mark Smith (channel is Four Boxes Diner)
Both are accomplished lawyers and are passionate about the 2A; they each have their own YT channels. In terms of knowledge and content, they are both very impressive. The accolades and experiences they have tower above the average counsel. But go watch a few videos of each of them and tell me which one comes off more professional and polished.
Grieve clearly prepares in advance and really does a great job of speaking to the talking points. Admittedly, those who do not support the 2A probably tune him out, but he certainly has a way of getting points across in a clear, concise, organized manner. He leads the listener right into conclusions which are well founded and precise, without being pushy. He never talks down to his audience, but he makes the details of legal work seem consumable to the average person. His summarizations are a wonderful blend of accuracy and brevity.
Conversely, Smith's brilliance is lost in translation. I find it difficult to watch his presentations. He repeats himself repeatedly (this was an example; a joke); he is disorganized in presentation - seemingly rambling aimlessly; he over-emphasizes his points; etc. Smith's content and analysis is very precise and detailed, but it's really painful to watch. He takes minutes to state what he should in seconds; it seems to take forever for him to get to his point. Sometimes you're not even sure what the point is, because he's led you on a goose-chase of repetition and wandering.
While both are great lawyers, only one is a great teacher.
LSJr is more like the latter, and should strive to be more like the former.
Tom Grieve (channel is his name)
Mark Smith (channel is Four Boxes Diner)
Both are accomplished lawyers and are passionate about the 2A; they each have their own YT channels. In terms of knowledge and content, they are both very impressive. The accolades and experiences they have tower above the average counsel. But go watch a few videos of each of them and tell me which one comes off more professional and polished.
Grieve clearly prepares in advance and really does a great job of speaking to the talking points. Admittedly, those who do not support the 2A probably tune him out, but he certainly has a way of getting points across in a clear, concise, organized manner. He leads the listener right into conclusions which are well founded and precise, without being pushy. He never talks down to his audience, but he makes the details of legal work seem consumable to the average person. His summarizations are a wonderful blend of accuracy and brevity.
Conversely, Smith's brilliance is lost in translation. I find it difficult to watch his presentations. He repeats himself repeatedly (this was an example; a joke); he is disorganized in presentation - seemingly rambling aimlessly; he over-emphasizes his points; etc. Smith's content and analysis is very precise and detailed, but it's really painful to watch. He takes minutes to state what he should in seconds; it seems to take forever for him to get to his point. Sometimes you're not even sure what the point is, because he's led you on a goose-chase of repetition and wandering.
While both are great lawyers, only one is a great teacher.
LSJr is more like the latter, and should strive to be more like the former.
We live in a world full of people who take motor oil for granted.
Barely give it a thought..
That's not BITOG.
LSJ is trying to get Joe Lurker to have more than a cursory look.
Hey Lake, we gonna fact check the out of you.
That's how BITOG rolls.
Barely give it a thought..
That's not BITOG.
LSJ is trying to get Joe Lurker to have more than a cursory look.
Hey Lake, we gonna fact check the out of you.
That's how BITOG rolls.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
that and selling fear. Fear always sells.
Most people won’t read academic journals. And educational TV shows cannot compete with reality TV. So, here we are. You kind of have to be educated on the subject to get what he is talking or draw your own conclusion from what he says. Average folk won’t understand it, unfortunately. But , they will get scared and watch it until the end.
Can you say which interval and use case approximates the results of the KRL test for every engine type? Doubt it.
Neither can I, but I’m willing to bet with hundreds of millions of dollars in potential engine warranties that the manufacturer has determined both worst-case scenarios and minimum requirements. And I guarantee the actuaries have done the math to make sure neither of those numbers exceed what the testing showed for the warranty to be honored.
Last edited:
IDK but he said the Mobil 1 result was similar to what he sees doing UOAs. I think there were 2 motivators for doing the video. The old commercial and that he sees viscosity breakdown regularly. Well 3. His business too. I rewatched the vid and he said that a lowered viscosity is associated with wear based on UOAs and it's only a "can happen" thing. Like some people have said maybe it's a planned occurence and definitely known between Porsche and Mobil 1. Unfortunately the vid titles prime people to expect some do or die content. But he even said he's trying out 5W-30 in his Porsche since it gets there anyway. Reading between the lines (unfortunately) lower viscosity isn't a killer.
EDIT: also you say manufacturers using actuaries, etc but how many times have they royally screwed up and will screw up oil specs.
Last edited:
- Status