Remember this is a different David than the owner David Ward.
LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!
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Hey. I ate tavern pizza with that guy. He snagged the best slices.
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Ok thanks. Didn’t realize that.
How so?
Just like Project Farm!There is also the Kurt Orbahn Shear stability test.
https://www.savantlab.com/testing-highlights/testing-shear-stability-and-viscosity-loss/
Kurt Orbahn or Bosch Injector
The Kurt Orbahn or Bosch Injector is associated with many methods differing mainly by the number of cycles the lubricant is passed through the injector. This test is designed to mechanically shear the lubricant. The lubricant is sheared when it is passes through a pintle orifice at a pressure of 13 to 18 MPa spraying and atomizing the oil in each pass. It is considered the least severe shearing method of the three discussed here. This method is typically used for engine oils and hydraulic fluids. Savant Labs offer ASTM D6278 Kurt Orbahn Shear Stability, 30 Passes and D7109 Kurt Orbahn Shear Stability, including 30 and 90 Passes. Both tests are ISO/IEC 17025:2005 accredited with this apparatus. Savant can also do custom testing to alter the number of cycles for other similar standards.
KRL (Tapered Roller Bearing)
The KRL shear test uses a tapered rolling bearing in a cup fitted to a four ball instrument. Load is applied to the bearings as they are rotated at a certain RPM for a specified length of time. The test is typically run for 20 hours. KRL is considered to be one of the most severe shear tests and is used for driveline fluids and gear lubricants. The unit can perform standard methods such as CEC L-45-A-99, DIN 51350/6, and ISO 26422:2014. Savant offers CEC L-45-A-99 Modified for KRL testing.
And Rat540!
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Would you guys say that the HPL PCMO closely matches the "GRP 3/OCP" test? If I understand it correctly, that G3/OCP was supposed to represent common off the shelf synthetic oils, so now I'm wondering how much better the HPL PCMO actually is vs off the shelf considering the significant difference in cost? What am I missing here?
Great question! I have a feeling it easily surpasses any off shelf oils. My opinion is based on the quality of ingredients used. Dave has certainly spoken on the cleaning power being equal to their most expensive offering.
That is not what the data showed, at all!
The HPL more closely matches the PAO control for shear numbers.
The G3/OCP uses the less- durable polymer VII. What you are missing - how HPL is formulated v. those products to which you’re comparing it.
It sounds like you are comparing the average viscosities, well sure, a 30 weight looks like a 30 weight. But the shear numbers are the important points in this analysis.
The HPL tested is far better in those numbers than the G3/OCP control. In the KRL test, HPL sheared 0.57%. Almost zero. The G3/OCP sheared 7.86%. More than TEN TIMES the amount.
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I'm confused because my understanding is that the basic/cheapest HPL (PCMO) is a group 3 base oil which uses OCP polymers. That would then be almost the same oil as the one labeled as such in the LSRj test (except their test oils didn't have ad packs etc)?
Lot of good discussion on this.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/viscosity-index-improvers-are-not-bad.238547/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/viscosity-index-improvers-are-not-bad.238547/
I think your understanding is wrong.
Where are you getting this understanding about HPL formulation?
Even their site says that they use better VII - but you think they don’t? Here is what their PCMO page says:
https://www.hplubricants.com/hp-synthetic-motor-oil-4/
https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/passenger-car-motor-oil
Here is the thread in which the HPL PCMO is discussed, please give it a read.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-pcmo-series.344421/
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I have read that entire thread over time, I can read it again but if you're saying even the basic HPL PCMO uses better VII's then that's all I need to know I guess.
Basically my question is, how well does the HPL PCMO do vs the tested oils. Yes I see the HPL "no vii" tested there, but that's only one of their oils and I'm running the cheapest PCMO.
I would reach out to @High Performance Lubricants directly.
My understanding is that every single one of the oils that they have developed goes through all of the extensive testing of which their lab is capable.
Far more testing than you saw in that video.
They will have all of the detailed performance results from that testing of their regular passenger car motor oil, and I promise you, the viscosity breakdown susceptibility, the durability, as well as the cleaning and other benefits of their regular PCMO oil far exceeds the group 3/OCP that we saw in the video.
He commented on one of his videos in a response to someone "the bitog crowd loves to hate me" or something along those lines
Probably was banned/deleted.
My understanding is that the standard PCMO uses an OCP VI improver. I believe david posted years back it had a 23ssi. The upgrade you get with the PCMO premium line was the 5ssi star polymer VI improver. In the PCMO thread the second post from david says "this series takes advantage of an advanced VI improver" and the premium plus line uses that same VI improver but utilizes PAO instead of group III. Ive posted numerous times that
PCMO=group III/OCP
PCMO premium=group III/star
PCMO premium plus=PAO/star
Now if im wrong thats fine im just saying this is how i understood it and i know i lead @hemioiler to that same conclusion. Again not saying your wrong just putting out there that thats how i understood it i may infact be wrong and maybe they all use star polymer VIIs but maybe the premium line uses group III with some PAO blended in.
I believe I made the comment he responded to.
For as interesting of a video as this is, there’s still the marketing you’ve gotta sift through.
LM 10W-60 and M1 5W-50 which have loads of VII show significant sheering, that’s neat to see but how do HPL’s various 5W-50 and 10W-60 oils hold up? They don’t show that.
HPL 5W-30 no VII takes comes out looking unfazed but how do their other 5W-30 hold up or other off the shelf 5W-30? They don’t show that.
Showing the effect is real with the few off the shelf oils they chose is fine, showing that the type of VII matters with those custom blends is fine (best part of the video to me), throwing the lone HPL no VII in there is pure marketing.
My other nitpick as I’ve said is that they don’t give any sense of how much in engine time this test mimics. Is it equivalent to a track weekend or 5-10k miles of daily driving? OCI that most of us would consider reasonable. Or would it take tens of thousands of miles to see that level of sheering? Intervals few of us would ever attempt to run.
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