Those are high quality base oils and VII’s used in boutique oils.
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LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!
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HPL doesn't want to appear as mudslinging their main competitor in the boutique market. No doubt, Amsoil would perform quite well.
Thank you!
He points it out in the video, that VI additive has great durability but wrecks the oils cold cranking performance. For the Grp 3 and PAO base it puts the oil out of the 5W spec.Actually, that last sample on the chart, the PAO/PIB combo looks pretty tempting
Not great for a year round oil, top notch for a track weekend oil where you don’t care about the cold cranking performance.
KRL is "kegel-rollen-lager" which is German for "Tapered roller bearing". A 20 ml sample is poured in the bearing, the case is sealed, and a 4-ball machine applies the load and rpm to see how much the oil shears in the bearing. It's not about what the oil does to the bearing but what the bearing does to the oil. It's a more common test for gear oils but correlates quite well with engine oils also.
The other samples are blends HPL made for the test with no add pack or other variables, just base oil and VII. They tested 4 different VIIs with both group III and IV base oils.
This is my thought too. A 10W-30, consisting of straight 8 cSt group III base oil with PIB, and an SP add pack with some extra ZDDP and MoDTC top treatment would make a pretty killer budget race oil. However, when you can make a 10W-30 and 5W-30 with no VII at all, there's no real point.
David looks scared while Lake is getting excited!
Yeah that’s where some in engine testing would be interesting. The Liqui Moly 10W-60 sheered down to a thin 50 weight but a HTHS of 4.7 as you said is still quite high. 50 and 60 weight oils have to have a HTHS above 3.7
I’m also curious just how much in engine time you need to see this same level of sheering damage. Is it this bad after a 4-6 hour weekend of track driving? How engine dependent is it? That would be a cool comparison. Get a Porsche flat 6, Chevy pushrod LS, Ford DOHC coyote, BMW turbo straight six, Subaru flat 4, etc and see if any engine stands out as being particularly brutal to the oil.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Someone ask Mr. Lake to run a lab test on the carbon comparisons between lets say two 5w30s.... one being SL Euro and the other being SP PCMO, in a TGDI engine run for approx / equivalent 7.5k
If I like what I see, then I'll bite on moving from SP back to SL.
For me, it's all about the Carbonization.
If I like what I see, then I'll bite on moving from SP back to SL.
For me, it's all about the Carbonization.
Exactly. The shear-resistance of HPL is well documented, for example, in Wayne’s 30,000 mile run, here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-300-miles-on-oil-173-000-miles-total.377756/
Further, I’m not surprised at how well the Mobil 1 performed. @High Performance Lubricants has said that is an excellent oil.
Many months back when he did a video on PUP, he was so excited about PUP he said he was going to run *that* oil next in his Boxster.
I wonder where this fits in here...
David Ward's comment that the High Performance Lubricants 0W40 supercar is different and costs more to make vs their Euro/Supercar 5W40.
The obvious presumption in this case with a no compromise philosophy is that more expensive components yield a better performing oil.
I noticed they mentioned styrene based VII that shears less than the 5ssi star. I wonder if thats where they added cost comes from? Who knows all i know is i got some supercar 0w40 coming for my ram 1500
There is also the Kurt Orbahn Shear stability test.
https://www.savantlab.com/testing-highlights/testing-shear-stability-and-viscosity-loss/
Kurt Orbahn or Bosch Injector
KRL (Tapered Roller Bearing)
Even a 10w is suitable for about 90% of the country for about 90% of the time. In an older engine like the EJ25, 10w really is a year-round oil, and that’s what I would use it for.
I still have to watch the video but the chart sums up all the relevant info. I may have to ask Dave if I can get a couple quarts of that with the @OVERKILL SuperCar Euro add pack
KRL testing was what took so long for me to get the gear oil results for the 75w90 thread I made. 11 different oils and just one test took 20 hours for each sample. Sure, the other testing could be done simultaneously, but KRL alone was over a week and a half’s worth of time even if the samples were run around the clock!There is also the Kurt Orbahn Shear stability test.
https://www.savantlab.com/testing-highlights/testing-shear-stability-and-viscosity-loss/
Kurt Orbahn or Bosch Injector
The Kurt Orbahn or Bosch Injector is associated with many methods differing mainly by the number of cycles the lubricant is passed through the injector. This test is designed to mechanically shear the lubricant. The lubricant is sheared when it is passes through a pintle orifice at a pressure of 13 to 18 MPa spraying and atomizing the oil in each pass. It is considered the least severe shearing method of the three discussed here. This method is typically used for engine oils and hydraulic fluids. Savant Labs offer ASTM D6278 Kurt Orbahn Shear Stability, 30 Passes and D7109 Kurt Orbahn Shear Stability, including 30 and 90 Passes. Both tests are ISO/IEC 17025:2005 accredited with this apparatus. Savant can also do custom testing to alter the number of cycles for other similar standards.
KRL (Tapered Roller Bearing)
The KRL shear test uses a tapered rolling bearing in a cup fitted to a four ball instrument. Load is applied to the bearings as they are rotated at a certain RPM for a specified length of time. The test is typically run for 20 hours. KRL is considered to be one of the most severe shear tests and is used for driveline fluids and gear lubricants. The unit can perform standard methods such as CEC L-45-A-99, DIN 51350/6, and ISO 26422:2014. Savant offers CEC L-45-A-99 Modified for KRL testing.
From what I’ve learned about KRL, it’s probably one of the most robust testing available as far as HTHS & viscosity stability. Some oils (like M1 AFE) are designed to shear permanently to a given level; some oils experience some temporary shear and some permanent shear; and others experience a very low shear (<3%). If you know the KRL results, you’ll know how to interpret what’s going on and if a given oil will perform as expected under extreme conditions.
The LM 10w60 is a good example of permanent shear, but if you know the characteristics and the end result works, it may get you to the “sweet spot” of what your application needs.
MolaKule
Staff member
Nope. Dave is just waiting for Lake to stop talking in order to give an explanation.David looks scared while Lake is getting excited!
Mostly true, but not always the case. There's times where the more expensive chemistry clashes, or at least doesn't synergize, with one another. This isn't common though, and can happen with cheaper chemistry as well.
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