LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!

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RevvCats said:
For as interesting of a video as this is, there’s still the marketing you’ve gotta sift through.

LM 10W-60 and M1 5W-50 which have loads of VII show significant sheering, that’s neat to see but how do HPL’s various 5W-50 and 10W-60 oils hold up? They don’t show that.

HPL 5W-30 no VII takes comes out looking unfazed but how do their other 5W-30 hold up or other off the shelf 5W-30? They don’t show that.

Showing the effect is real with the few off the shelf oils they chose is fine, showing that the type of VII matters with those custom blends is fine (best part of the video to me), throwing the lone HPL no VII in there is pure marketing.

My other nitpick as I’ve said is that they don’t give any sense of how much in engine time this test mimics. Is it equivalent to a track weekend or 5-10k miles of daily driving? OCI that most of us would consider reasonable. Or would it take tens of thousands of miles to see that level of sheering? Intervals few of us would ever attempt to run.
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I think they chose the no VII 5w30 because in the video he said were gonna show you a couple oils we know use alot of VII a 5w50 and a 10w60 and mobil 1 0w40 as i get alot of samples and they all shear. Then we will show you an oil that doesnt use VII and compare to the others. HPL also blended us some samples to test which use different VIIs to showcase how each VII does in the shear test. It really wasnt to show that HPL is better than all the rest. As @RDY4WAR has said they don't participate un mudslinging between brands.
 
RevvCats said:
For as interesting of a video as this is, there’s still the marketing you’ve gotta sift through.

LM 10W-60 and M1 5W-50 which have loads of VII show significant sheering, that’s neat to see but how do HPL’s various 5W-50 and 10W-60 oils hold up? They don’t show that.

HPL 5W-30 no VII takes comes out looking unfazed but how do their other 5W-30 hold up or other off the shelf 5W-30? They don’t show that.

Showing the effect is real with the few off the shelf oils they chose is fine, showing that the type of VII matters with those custom blends is fine (best part of the video to me), throwing the lone HPL no VII in there is pure marketing.

My other nitpick as I’ve said is that they don’t give any sense of how much in engine time this test mimics. Is it equivalent to a track weekend or 5-10k miles of daily driving? OCI that most of us would consider reasonable. Or would it take tens of thousands of miles to see that level of sheering? Intervals few of us would ever attempt to run.
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I don't have a nitpick per se, this isn't the fault of HPL as LSJr setup the test so I'm sure that was his call.

But yes I'd love to see how the basic PCMO holds up vs something like the no vii, I'm sure it will be worse but "how much" is the question.

I change my oil every 5 to 7 k so I'm no interested in long intervals, to me that means I could run the PCMO and get a really good oil with excellent cleaning and aw additives etc, the nerd in me just wants to know how well the PCMO compares (in real tests) vs off the shelf when it comes to shear etc.
 
I got a good chuckle out of both 5W-40's shearing more than M1 FS 0W-40. Where is your God now narrow spread fanbois? LOL :ROFLMAO:

Reaffirms what Dave (Ward) has said on here, that M1 0W-40 is the best OTS oil they've tested. It really is as good as claimed. For the price and availability, you really can't get a better "do it all" OTS lubricant.
 
OVERKILL said:
I got a good chuckle out of both 5W-40's shearing more than M1 FS 0W-40. Where is your God now narrow spread fanbois? LOL :ROFLMAO:

Reaffirms what Dave (Ward) has said on here, that M1 0W-40 is the best OTS oil they've tested. It really is as good as claimed. For the price and availability, you really can't get a better "do it all" OTS lubricant.
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ESP 0w-40?
 
OVERKILL said:
I got a good chuckle out of both 5W-40's shearing more than M1 FS 0W-40. Where is your God now narrow spread fanbois? LOL :ROFLMAO:

Reaffirms what Dave (Ward) has said on here, that M1 0W-40 is the best OTS oil they've tested. It really is as good as claimed. For the price and availability, you really can't get a better "do it all" OTS lubricant.
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I am only seeing 1 5W-40!
 
OVERKILL said:
I got a good chuckle out of both 5W-40's shearing more than M1 FS 0W-40. Where is your God now narrow spread fanbois? LOL :ROFLMAO:

Reaffirms what Dave (Ward) has said on here, that M1 0W-40 is the best OTS oil they've tested. It really is as good as claimed. For the price and availability, you really can't get a better "do it all" OTS lubricant.
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It would be cool to see edge 0w40 and m1 FS 5w40. I wonder if FS 5w40 would perform worse than the 0w40
 
RevvCats said:
For as interesting of a video as this is, there’s still the marketing you’ve gotta sift through.

LM 10W-60 and M1 5W-50 which have loads of VII show significant sheering, that’s neat to see but how do HPL’s various 5W-50 and 10W-60 oils hold up? They don’t show that.

HPL 5W-30 no VII takes comes out looking unfazed but how do their other 5W-30 hold up or other off the shelf 5W-30? They don’t show that.

Showing the effect is real with the few off the shelf oils they chose is fine, showing that the type of VII matters with those custom blends is fine (best part of the video to me), throwing the lone HPL no VII in there is pure marketing.

My other nitpick as I’ve said is that they don’t give any sense of how much in engine time this test mimics. Is it equivalent to a track weekend or 5-10k miles of daily driving? OCI that most of us would consider reasonable. Or would it take tens of thousands of miles to see that level of sheering? Intervals few of us would ever attempt to run.
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All good and valid points.
 
I am late to the thread.

We have a good relationship largely in part with our relationship with Total Seal and this Pro Stock team. I think it is fair to say that as Lake has learned about us he is certainly a supporter of what we do as building premium products is what he did with Driven. That being said we will run tests and blend what Lake wants for his videos. What he does is his call. Lake is very passionate abut these projects and has that energy needed to get it done.

The KRL:

We run an abbreviated KRL on engine oils as a quick way to screen or compare oils. KRL is a gear oil test that normally runs 20 hours. It is a pretty severe test. I had a customer that I promised 1000 hour drains in a diesel engine in crane service. At that time we were using a 35 SSI VI improver which was a great balance that would allow the oil to shear some and counteract the normal thickening of the oil. it worked very well to maintain the original viscosity on 20,000 mile drains in other applications. I made a decision to choose and migrate to a 20 SSI VI improver (and it is a very good one) as this piece of equipment was actually the one and only time I have ever seen our oil shear down a grade. We measured the used oil and ran the KRL until we were able to shear it to the same viscosity as we encountered in the 750 hour drain. Now we have a reference to a real world application for this test. This was still 3 times the drain over the OEM recommended 250 hours but I committed to 4 times the drain to my customer. I honored that commitment by changing our product.

This is the reason our oils will not shear out of grade and in fact you will see the normal viscosity increase with age that is not hidden by the shear of the VII.

Personally I think Mobil FS 0W40 is an excellent oil. If I did not have my own oil I would probably run that oil in almost everything I own gas or diesel. Mobil also makes excellent raw materials and we absolutely use some of them in our oils.

We do not spend a lot of time monitoring and testing competing oils. We tend to focus on thing to improve our own products when it makes sense.

I don't believe Lake is active on BITOG. If you comment on his videos he will see those comments.

I know Lake has many more things he would like to do and we are happy to let him use our lab for his videos.

It is always easy to criticize things like this but I for one am glad that he does these as he likes to educate people and he has the energy for it. He is not writing technical papers he is putting his energy into sharing knowledge.

There are a lot of valid points made here but my take is Lake is trying to simply show that formulas with large amount of VII are more prone to shear and it matters in the choices you make as a formulator. The reason he chose our no VII oils to compare with is not an actual A to B comparison but rather the basic difference of a high VII containing oil as compared to one that does not have any.

I am glad he did it that way because I really do not want to engage on a "my oil's better than yours" campaign. We live in a time where there are a lot of good choices for oils. We have been pretty open with our approach and beliefs here, and for like minded people we will be a good fit. For others we may not. Hats off to our plant manager David Stoiber for fitting this into our lab schedule.

David Ward
 
kschachn said:
What game? HT/HS is a better indicator of the oil’s performance than grade. It’s likely better for listing on the container, but most people probably couldn’t understand it. Look at all the issues people seem to have with understanding the winter rating.
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Going to thinner oil to try and effect the rounding error of my fuel economy.
 
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