LSJr Take on Oil Filter Efficiency Improving with Loading

[mojoe]

I'd rather waste my time here than on YT, lol. At least on this board the truth usually comes out in the end of the various technical discussions.

I'm thankful for LSJR and his YT page, and I'm also thankful for BITOG and everyone here. Tons of great info on both. I have no reason to be suspicious or doubt the character or intentions of LSJR or any BITOGer. I will continue with both.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm thankful for LSJR and his YT page, and I'm also thankful for BITOG and everyone here. Tons of great info on both. I have no reason to be suspicious or doubt the character or intentions of LSJR or any BITOGer. I will continue with both.

I watch his videos, and for the most part seem pretty accurate, but I don't comment in them. I will comment about them here when it comes up, like in this thread. He'd probably remove the comments anyway like one member here says he did, lol.

 

[garageman402]

I watch his videos, and for the most part seem pretty accurate, but I don't comment in them. I will comment about them here when it comes up, like in this thread. He'd probably remove the comments anyway like one member here says he did, lol.

I stand corrected, I just clicked on the video, my comment & replies are still there & intact. My apologies. I must have been in the wrong video, he has two that contain the three Donaldson guys.

 

[rstsco]

...folks complain about the length of his videos and will happily read/participate for most of a day on a 300+ post thread where at least 75% of it is irrelevent trash. BITOGers can be insufferable.

I can't help being a "slow reader" . /sarcasm. I was taught when reading technical or scientific data, each and every word is important.

On the other hand, my wife can complete a "novel" in a day or two. Using her Kindle in bed at night, every 3-5 seconds I hear "click" as she's "turning the page". It was happening so quickly, for the longest time, I thought it was the ceiling fan out of balance making the clicking sound. Then one night I realized the sound was still there when the fan was off. My hearing is so poor I hadn't noticed the click was coming from a few feet away from me.

I regularly change the playback speed on YT videos to 1.5X to 2X, especially those where a person is talking "more deliberately" aka slower, to increase the length of their videos.

 

[garageman402]

I just finished reading the thread "LSJr on the importance of clean oil". Only took 3 days & 288 posts to come completely off the rails & get locked. Interesting. Seems like I was late to the party, which is what I prefaced my comment to Lake on the video I started this thread with. Interestingly, my comment, his reply & my subsequent reply have been deleted? Or buried somewhere?

Curiously, the answer I posted in my opening post is identical word for word to one of his answers I saw in the locked thread.

Moving ahead, we'll have to see if the promised video at Donaldson confirms or disproves his statement.

Clever way to get more viewers, eh?

The comment in bold I wish to retract.

 

[4wd]

I still find the cake discussion to be interesting bcs that’s exactly the starting point on pre-coated industrial and even pool filters.
They continue to filter well - but must be serviced before dP will exceed cP …

 

[oil pan 4]

These filter tests are in no way repressing reality.
In an engine that's running down the road in the real world the oil is being filtered at least once, probably 4 or 5 times for every milligram of dirt and soot that's being added to the oil. In the test, dirt is dumped into the test setup hundreds of times faster.
No wonder the dirt levels go up on the completely unrealistic test.
No wonder the dirt levels go down on a test engine.

 

[mojoe]

These filter tests are in no way repressing reality.
In an engine that's running down the road in the real world the oil is being filtered at least once, probably 4 or 5 times for every milligram of dirt and soot that's being added to the oil. In the test, dirt is dumped into the test setup hundreds of times faster.
No wonder the dirt levels go up on the completely unrealistic test.
No wonder the dirt levels go down on a test engine.

Get ready for a lesson from the real authorities.

 

[GW.]

These filter tests are in no way repressing reality.
In an engine that's running down the road in the real world the oil is being filtered at least once, probably 4 or 5 times for every milligram of dirt and soot that's being added to the oil. In the test, dirt is dumped into the test setup hundreds of times faster.
No wonder the dirt levels go up on the completely unrealistic test.
No wonder the dirt levels go down on a test engine.

All that sounds great. Patiently waiting for the actual data.

Lake himself says if you make a claim make sure you have the data.

 

[4wd]

These filter tests are in no way repressing reality.
In an engine that's running down the road in the real world the oil is being filtered at least once, probably 4 or 5 times for every milligram of dirt and soot that's being added to the oil. In the test, dirt is dumped into the test setup hundreds of times faster.
No wonder the dirt levels go up on the completely unrealistic test.
No wonder the dirt levels go down on a test engine.

There have always been debates over lab vs road use - the rates of contamination you mention - or is it the same temperature (Fram XG shrivels like an old rose) - various surges and effluents and varnish vs test dirt etc … Stop/start/drive
But people here are tribol (sorry) and are going to saber rattle when we don’t know …
Certified tests are the starting points - then emotional bias fills the gaps. Ever notice how many trash talk GM over dexos & not dexron ?

 

[mojoe]

All that sounds great. Patiently waiting for the actual data.

Lake himself says if you make a claim make sure you have the data.

As I understand it, the data comes from thousands (or however many) used oil analysis he has done or seen. As you saw, he showed graphs and charts that are supposedly derived from that data. We have not, however, seen the numbers or been given any further details regarding methodology as we would expect from a controlled study. To me, this indicates that he is either making it all up, or he just doesn't give a rip if some people doubt him as it is.

 

[rstsco]

As I understand it, the data comes from thousands (or however many) used oil analysis he has done or seen. As you saw, he showed graphs and charts that are supposedly derived from that data. We have not, however, seen the numbers or been given any further details regarding methodology as we would expect from a controlled study. To me, this indicates that he is either making it all up, or he just doesn't give a rip if some people doubt him as it is.

Even an environmentally-controlled lab running a thousand engines from the same production line built on the same day are going to have variations. If all are running the "same oil", there could be variations on how good the oil was mixed before bottling. There could be difference in a few ml of oil between engines, etc.

There are no controlled studies when it comes to used oil analysis.

 

[mojoe]

Even an environmentally-controlled lab running a thousand engines from the same production line built on the same day are going to have variations. If all are running the "same oil", there could be variations on how good the oil was mixed before bottling. There could be difference in a few ml of oil between engines, etc.

There are no controlled studies when it comes to used oil analysis.

I know.

 

[GW.]

As I understand it, the data comes from thousands (or however many) used oil analysis he has done or seen. As you saw, he showed graphs and charts that are supposedly derived from that data. We have not, however, seen the numbers or been given any further details regarding methodology as we would expect from a controlled study. To me, this indicates that he is either making it all up, or he just doesn't give a rip if some people doubt him as it is.

If I had to guess he has the oil filter data but is saving it for an upcoming vid. Hopefully at Donaldson.

 

[mojoe]

Could be - I hope so! I'm confident he's not making it up or just basing his claims on a theory.

 

[ZeeOSix]

These filter tests are in no way repressing reality.
In an engine that's running down the road in the real world the oil is being filtered at least once, probably 4 or 5 times for every milligram of dirt and soot that's being added to the oil. In the test, dirt is dumped into the test setup hundreds of times faster.
No wonder the dirt levels go up on the completely unrealistic test.
No wonder the dirt levels go down on a test engine.

The ISO efficiency test is multi-pass, so debris gets many chances to be re-filtered every time it's recirculared.

And explain why actual tests in the field show that higher filtration results in lower ISO particle counts and less engine wear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Could be - I hope so! I'm confident he's not making it up or just basing his claims on a theory.

I'd say it's based on a theory stemming from air filters get more efficient with debris loading.

It's been proven by testing that oil filters lose efficiency with debris loading. Data sources shown in this thread. Filters with a lower ISO efficiency are larger debris shedders than higher efficiency filters.

 

[mojoe]

I'd say it's based on a theory stemming from air filters get more efficient with debris loading.

It's been proven by testing that oil filters lose efficiency with debris loading. Data sources shown in this thread. Filters with a lower ISO efficiency are larger debris shedders than higher efficiency filters.

Could be, but I doubt it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Could be, but I doubt it.

Have you seen any test data that show's otherwise? If LSJr goes to Donaldson and finds out that oil filters get less efficient as they load up per every ISO 4548-12 test I've seen, then we'll have to wait and see how he divulges that, or not. He may just ignore it at this point.

 

[mojoe]

Have you seen any test data that show's otherwise? If LSJr goes to Donaldson and finds out that oil filters get less efficient as they load up per every ISO 4548-12 test I've seen, then we'll have to wait and see how he divulges that, or not. He may just ignore it at this point.

No I haven't, and I don't need any, because I am not claiming that any such evidence exists. I am making no claim at all.

I simply doubt that LSJR is basing his claim on pure theory, and therefore it's likely that he has some evidence upon which to base his claim. You have studies that dispute his claim; I am very very VERY aware of that; but I don't think you have any controlled studies that indicate whether or not LSJR has any evidence to support his claims.

And look, I have no problem admitting I could be wrong. I've been married for over 30 years, so it's no big deal.