LSJR blends up a custom oil in the lab

To this day it's been one of the best explanations I've heard:

"If an oil doesn't meet its specs, this means that blending quality is horrible." Or maybe not, there are many more places along the path for things to go astray than the blend kettle.
I have to disagree.

While problems may arise within a blending facility, and there have been a few, it is the formulation that is ultimately at fault.

The formulation may not have been properly bench- and/or fleet-tested.
 
I have to disagree.

While problems may arise within a blending facility, and there have been a few, it is the formulation that is ultimately at fault.

The formulation may not have been properly bench- and/or fleet-tested.
(y)
 
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I doubt they're 2-3 generations behind though LOL. Keep in mind this was like 2004.

I'm not anti/pro major or ILMA. Like them both for different reasons.

It's been said the majors have poor blend quality but I've yet to see it.

Honestly the only oils I've seen that were without A DOUBT complete garbage were the oils picked up by PQIA.
 
If you ever worked or toured a blending place, they are very careful on that goes in a oil, in recent times very to almost nonexistent mistakes are made, at least with a modern major brand plant. though slight formulation variance can and do happen.
 
I was a QC Chemist for several years for Inland Speciality chemical, they eventually closed the facility in Orange, CA and moved it to Ft Wayne Indiana. But they kept an R&D facility in Irvine CA, and I stayed on as a development chemist making mainly chemical blends for PCB manufacturing (before it all went to China)

Anyway - a batch sheet was always calculated by weight and volume - by hand with a calculator (no PC's quite yet, almost) . There could have been errors but no sheets went out to the blending area without a second chemist checking the numbers. Then of course blenders could measure wrong (they did, but infrequent). The sheets even told them which tanks to use. When a batch was complete then it was tested, GC, acid/base, color, other properties as needed, plus a pint retain was held for each and every batch. I know this is not the oil business but some blends where HC solvent based. We even did some HTFs.
 
I have to disagree.

While problems may arise within a blending facility, and there have been a few, it is the formulation that is ultimately at fault.

The formulation may not have been properly bench- and/or fleet-tested.

@MolaKule maybe I'm mis-remembering, but wasn't API SM a bit of a turd in the punchbowl when it was released? Seems my memory is telling me there were some wear issues with it.
 
I doubt they're 2-3 generations behind though LOL. Keep in mind this was like 2004.

I'm not anti/pro major or ILMA. Like them both for different reasons.

It's been said the majors have poor blend quality but I've yet to see it.

Honestly the only oils I've seen that were without A DOUBT complete garbage were the oils picked up by PQIA.


Majors - more specifically their blending partners - mess up more often then you think…

Yeah, this is a “trust me bro” moment. But they all let bad batches out the door.

All bakers make a bad cake eventually.
All blenders kick out a bad batch sometimes.

Maybe the oven wasn’t hot enough, you know?

I dealt with a batch of EP220 recently that would, absolutely not, filter down to 16/14/12. Even running it through 3 micron B1000 filters.

Here, it wasn’t blended at the proper temperature. So it would filter fine. But when it cooled down, the micropitting & anti foam add pack would fall out of solution and send the particle counts off the charts. But when we heated it up to 130F and filter it, the additives would go back into solution enough to go through the filters.

Took a bit to figure that one out.
 
This was from the early 2000's when I had first joined. It was from a guy at the time who worked for XOM. I believe he used to be on Noria if anyone remembers that site.

To this day it's been one of the best explanations I've heard:

"If an oil doesn't meet its specs, this means that blending quality is horrible." Or maybe not, there are many more places along the path for things to go astray than the blend kettle.

Compounder-blenders are likely to have a very generic formulation that is 2-3 generations behind the majors, their exhorbitant claims notwithstanding. I've seen tearaparts of some pretty high-profile compounder-blender synthetics that were just sad. These guys are buying an adpak from Lubrizol or Infineum and blending it with basestock, usually from ExxonMobil, since that's the company with the most spare basestock capacity. Many of their "specs" beyond the physical properties are read across from the adpak & the basestock specs. In other words, they've never run many of the tests they quote on their actual completed blends, or even on a lab blend. I've seen plenty of oils represented as "GF-4" whose names are suspiciously absent from the ILSAC web page. Blend quality in this market segment is likely to be all over the map.

The majors are typically going to give you a state-of-the-art formulation. Even if LZ or INF produces their adpak, it's likely to be a custom job developed in concert between the two companies and frequently sold exclusively to the major in question. (Once they develop the next generation, you'll frequently find these now-out-of-fashion adpaks in the compounder-blenders' products.) Their problems may be in the blend kettle, but the gremlins are much more likely to creep into their heavily distributor-dependent supply chains."

That's just based on tearaparts I've seen, from a group of some very talented chemists playing with some very fancy toys. "Synthetic" can be about as useful a term with oil as "organic" is with food. Plastic-related materials (as in high levels of VI improver, PIB & diester) are synthetic, but there are better things to put in your lubricants these days. (But those better components, specifically high-vis PAOs and non-ester cosolvents, cut into the bottom line, you know.)

Any supplier touting one specific additive might very well be using that as sleight of hand to distract you from thinking about the rest of a fairly pedestrian formulation.

The same goes for touting one property. "We have 8 ZILLION times better wear protection than Brand X (and those deposits all over the place, uh, they give you extra rust protection, yeah, that's the ticket.)"

Think of a lube formulation as a partly filled balloon. If you squeeze it one place, it's going to bulge out somewhere else. You can also think of an additive like a drug, it's got beneficial properties and side effects. If you push too hard on one property, it's going to hurt you somewhere else. Better suppliers will try to give you a comprehensive formulation that gives the best possible overall performance the current technology can provide."
I'm really curious who he (and others) are referring to. How many blenders are out there?? HPL and Amsoil are great. We know that. Who are these sketchy blenders? Schaeffer's doesn't get much attention here, but people who use their products seem happy.
 
I'm really curious who he (and others) are referring to. How many blenders are out there?? HPL and Amsoil are great. We know that. Who are these sketchy blenders? Schaeffer's doesn't get much attention here, but people who use their products seem happy.


There’s around 150 different lubricant blenders in the U.S.

Probably more if you count all the distributors and such that do light blending as well. Probably closer to 200, there.

And that’s probably not counting all the facilities that do MWF’s either.
 
There’s around 150 different lubricant blenders in the U.S.

Probably more if you count all the distributors and such that do light blending as well. Probably closer to 200, there.

And that’s probably not counting all the facilities that do MWF’s either.
I didn't realize there were so many. Where are their products sold? Is much of it sold to commercial/industrial buyers?
 
I didn't realize there were so many. Where are their products sold? Is much of it sold to commercial/industrial buyers?

Almost exclusively.

There’s a few bathtub blenders you’ll find on the shelf. See the PQIA list. But generally, retailers are skeptical after the few lawsuits. They want at least some sort of brand name anymore to fall back on.


But there’s plenty of PCEO sold by sketchy blenders into bulk tanks.

Then there’s the Wild West of industrial products and metal working fluids. (MWF)

“Hydraulic Oil” with no listed viscosity grade, probably used oil ran through a filter. “Dark gear oil” that’s who knows what mystery mix out there.

I know a lot of shady players. I’m just not willing to name names because they *can* sue me. As, I’m their competition. I’ve already been doxxed on here. So I’ll leave it at that.
 
It fascinates me we're on page 6 talking about a person who appears to be making a living doing what we're scrutinizing whether he's qualified to do or not. IMHO, why would groups of others seemingly qualified professionals include him in their vlogs, research papers, conferences, labs, etc, if they didn't think he added any value?
This is NOT a dig at Lake, but that happens all the time. People that know very little about a subject get questioned and quoted as experts on all manner of things, I see it regularly in the nuclear power space. The Ontario Clean Air Alliance, who has proven to know absolutely nothing about power generation and distribution, and the David Suzuki Foundation, to which the same criticism applies, are both oft cited as experts in the media and by people with a certain technology preference in academia, research and other spaces.
 
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