What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
Lowest Temp Usage for Syn 10w30?
- Thread starter BTLew81
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
............ I'd say a safe limit for 10w30 synthetic would be between -13F and -22F.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
-15 °F or so.
............ I'd say a safe limit for 10w30 synthetic would be between -13F and -22F.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
-15 °F or so.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
............ I'd say a safe limit for 10w30 synthetic would be between -13F and -22F.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
-15 °F or so.
For once, we agree!
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
............ I'd say a safe limit for 10w30 synthetic would be between -13F and -22F.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
-15 °F or so.
For once, we agree!
MolaKule
Staff member
I think it depends on the oil; last year I used Mobil 1 10W30 HM in my Frontier down to -23F and it started well, considering this was the original starter in a vehicle with 164,ooo miles.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
I'm suprised my nonsense and his meticulous reading of same came to a whopping 3 degrees difference, if that since I said ok lower. I also did not say that the offical tests would bear out my general point. This is a general field guide, if you will, and I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
Originally Posted By: jldcol
I'm suprised my nonsense and his meticulous reading of same came to a whopping 3 degrees difference, if that since I said ok lower. I also did not say that the offical tests would bear out my general point. This is a general field guide, if you will, and I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
You sir initially said a 10w30 synthetic could in essence be classified as a 0w-30. I pointed out that by definition, that is preposterous. So you essentially said a synthetic 10w30 would be safe to -31 F (be definition of SAE CCS and MRV testing); a far cry from 15 below.
I'm suprised my nonsense and his meticulous reading of same came to a whopping 3 degrees difference, if that since I said ok lower. I also did not say that the offical tests would bear out my general point. This is a general field guide, if you will, and I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
You sir initially said a 10w30 synthetic could in essence be classified as a 0w-30. I pointed out that by definition, that is preposterous. So you essentially said a synthetic 10w30 would be safe to -31 F (be definition of SAE CCS and MRV testing); a far cry from 15 below.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: jldcol
I'm suprised my nonsense and his meticulous reading of same came to a whopping 3 degrees difference, if that since I said ok lower. I also did not say that the offical tests would bear out my general point. This is a general field guide, if you will, and I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
You sir initially said a 10w30 synthetic could in essence be classified as a 0w-30. I pointed out that by definition, that is preposterous.
Wut wut? Tally ho!
Originally Posted By: jldcol
I'm suprised my nonsense and his meticulous reading of same came to a whopping 3 degrees difference, if that since I said ok lower. I also did not say that the offical tests would bear out my general point. This is a general field guide, if you will, and I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
You sir initially said a 10w30 synthetic could in essence be classified as a 0w-30. I pointed out that by definition, that is preposterous.
Wut wut? Tally ho!
Synthetic oils don't use viscosity improvers.
Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
OK, maybe I'm being an a$$ ( people tell me that daily!).
Oils are labeled via 0w,5w,10w by definition of how they perform in industry standard SAE testing. The SAE uses cold cranking tests and tests used to determine how oil performs in terms of pumping (CCS and MRV respectively). So by definition, a 10w30 performs like a 10w30 (even synthetic, although synthetics perform better) in industry standard SAE tests. That was my point.
I wish I could find a chart that shows SAE w grades and test limits.
Again, my point was, when an motor oil producer makes a 10w30, they do so with the intent of it performing in accordance with SAE 10w30 standards.
Oils are labeled via 0w,5w,10w by definition of how they perform in industry standard SAE testing. The SAE uses cold cranking tests and tests used to determine how oil performs in terms of pumping (CCS and MRV respectively). So by definition, a 10w30 performs like a 10w30 (even synthetic, although synthetics perform better) in industry standard SAE tests. That was my point.
I wish I could find a chart that shows SAE w grades and test limits.
Again, my point was, when an motor oil producer makes a 10w30, they do so with the intent of it performing in accordance with SAE 10w30 standards.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
OK, maybe I'm being an a$$ ( people tell me that daily!).
No no! It was that when I read your phrase, I pictured an older British gentleman wearing a spectacle and talking with condescension to a much younger, and less wise chap.
OK, maybe I'm being an a$$ ( people tell me that daily!).
No no! It was that when I read your phrase, I pictured an older British gentleman wearing a spectacle and talking with condescension to a much younger, and less wise chap.
Originally Posted By: jldcol
I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
In general I would agree with that. It's a general rule of thumb that you can double CCS and MRV numbers to compare oils of varying SAE W grades. So a synthetic 10w30 with a 3,500 cP CCS would be around 7,000 cP in the 5w test (the limit for SAE 5w).
Where synthetic truly shines from looking at a lot of product data sheets, is in cold pumping (MRV). Taking the same principle of doubling the results at a higher grade, I'd imagine some 10w30 synthetics could possibly pass the SAE 0w MRV test just barely. They'd fail the CCS test bad though.
So jdcol, there is some merit to your assertions. Synthetics. especially PAOs, do outperform "conventional" oils in cold weather.
I think in general a 10w30 syn oil could be used where a 5w30 dino would seem approiate.
In general I would agree with that. It's a general rule of thumb that you can double CCS and MRV numbers to compare oils of varying SAE W grades. So a synthetic 10w30 with a 3,500 cP CCS would be around 7,000 cP in the 5w test (the limit for SAE 5w).
Where synthetic truly shines from looking at a lot of product data sheets, is in cold pumping (MRV). Taking the same principle of doubling the results at a higher grade, I'd imagine some 10w30 synthetics could possibly pass the SAE 0w MRV test just barely. They'd fail the CCS test bad though.
So jdcol, there is some merit to your assertions. Synthetics. especially PAOs, do outperform "conventional" oils in cold weather.
Last edited:
Original post question was on conditions 0-30 degrees which in my inane responce I would classify as a cold winter, and therefore 10w or 15w suitable to use. Posters had concerns at bottom of this range so more like 10w, this is a dino guesstimation syn more easily I would say ok. Regarding those SAE ratings some oils barely pass and others really pass, so much difference that at least like a 1/2 grade better if not a whole one.
Originally Posted By: jldcol
Regarding those SAE ratings some oils barely pass and others really pass, so much difference that at least like a 1/2 grade better if not a whole one.
Totally agree, especially CCS testing for each "W" grade. That is where synthetics shine. The limit for 10w cold pumping (MRV) is 60,000 centipoise at -30C. Most synthetics are in the 10,000 to 15,000 range, where as conventional oils are around 20,000 cP. It's even more dramatic for the 5w SAE test.
Regarding those SAE ratings some oils barely pass and others really pass, so much difference that at least like a 1/2 grade better if not a whole one.
Totally agree, especially CCS testing for each "W" grade. That is where synthetics shine. The limit for 10w cold pumping (MRV) is 60,000 centipoise at -30C. Most synthetics are in the 10,000 to 15,000 range, where as conventional oils are around 20,000 cP. It's even more dramatic for the 5w SAE test.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Synthetic oils don't use viscosity improvers.
Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
Synthetic oils do indeed use viscosity index improvers. They don't need as much as conventional oils and there a few, very few dual rated oils such as Amsoil 10w30/30 that have no VII but the 0W/5W/10W-30 oils that you buy across the counter have varying amounts of VII.
Synthetic oils don't use viscosity improvers.
Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What reason is there to run a 10w30 over 5w30 or 0W-30 in any ambient temperature.
The 10w30 should have the heaviest base oil, therefore require less, if any, VII, be more shear stable, and have a higher HTHS.
Synthetic oils do indeed use viscosity index improvers. They don't need as much as conventional oils and there a few, very few dual rated oils such as Amsoil 10w30/30 that have no VII but the 0W/5W/10W-30 oils that you buy across the counter have varying amounts of VII.
- Status
