-40 Temp Oil

[tebtengri]

I'm getting a new RAV4 and after a few break in changes with Toyota 0W-16 I'm curious what oil would be best for Williston, ND type winters.

I've read a bit about PAOs, esters, GTL etc and see that some excel at really low temps and other things that are great at everything else hit a wall at low temps.

I can't remember which substances really excel at low temps - maybe it was esters and PAOs and GTL is bad at low temps. I can't remember for sure.

If someone could jog my memory on what works well at -40 as well as what brand oils contain a higher content of that (or at least work better in frigid temps).

My average use will be start the car, let her sit 15-20 minutes while I grab coffee, shave, etc, drive 10 miles and then she'll sit for 14-17 hours. The after work start will have a shorter warm up and maybe a couple extra miles driven to fuel up and/or grab food. She'll also regularly sit for a week at a time with no use.

I've seen that Canada has a heater that can(and must) be installed and I may import and get one installed before winter hits, but I'm not sure yet. Hell, the dealers here in ND may have them or I could just schedule and drive to a Canadian dealer and do it as well.

All information will be appreciated.

 

[userfriendly]

Your RAV4 likely already has a block heater, all the dealer has to do is supply the extension cord.
The heater cords on GM vehicles are an option and cost about $150 because they are thermostatically controlled, not cutting in above zero F, or minus 18C. The Toyota block heater cords might be the same.
Any engine oil with a 0w winter grade is required for cold starts below minus 35C.

 

[addyguy]

The morning warm up you propose is a complete waste of gas and isn’t actually good for the vehicle. A couple of minutes, sure, but 15-20 is silly.
Any 0W-16 will be great in the cold; especially with a block heater…your concerns are overblown!

 

[oil pan 4]

Yeah 0w-16 or 0w-20 would probably be fine in the winter there.
I'm glad I'm in New Mexico, if it gets to -10f I'm skipping work and just spending all day feeding the wood stove.

 

[tebtengri]

Even a RAV4 bought in North Carolina?

The morning warm up you propose is a complete waste of gas and isn’t actually good for the vehicle. A couple of minutes, sure, but 15-20 is silly.
Any 0W-16 will be great in the cold; especially with a block heater…your concerns are overblown!

The morning warm up is more for my comfort than for the car

If I can find some sort of plug in heater that keeps the water warmer and basically has it blowing warm air immediately I'll gladly use that.

I've gotten spoiled with the heated seats and wheel of the Volvo I've been renting.

 

[tebtengri]

I'm glad I'm in New Mexico, if it gets to -10f I'm skipping work and just spending all day feeding the wood stove.

I've debated transferring to West Texas, which would include parts of NM. Jal, etc.

Of course I also debated Alaska as they get 2 weeks on 2 weeks off va 2/1

 

[OilUzer]

Is this a hybrid or the 2.5L?

I considered buying a 2.5L couple years ago.
My friend has a 2.5L and likes it. I think his owner's manual says 0W-16 but the filler cap says 0W-20.
I told him the oil cap has a typo and they probably meant to say 0W-30.

 

[userfriendly]

Is this a hybrid or the 2.5L?

I considered buying a 2.5L couple years ago.
My friend has a 2.5L and likes it. I think his owner's manual says 0W-16 but the filler cap says 0W-20.
I told him the oil cap has a typo and they probably meant to say 0W-30.

The oil cap says 710

 

[B1974]

Toyota dealers in ND should be able to install a block heater for you. As for oil I'm thinking most any good quality oil will work well, just be sure to let it run up to temp on a regular basis. Short trips where the engine doesn't heat up doesn't get rid of condensation in the motor.

The heater cords on GM vehicles are an option and cost about $150 because they are thermostatically controlled

Those cord ends with the thermostat in them are junk, had ours replaced under warranty twice and ended up cutting the end off and putting on a regular plug end.

 

[BigTimeTA]

If the battery level is low in the morning, the engine will do extra work to charge the battery and heat the cabin as well. But that doesn't negate the necessity of a block heater and well-formulated 0W oil. Drive smoothly for the first 15 minutes. The engine is going to shut down if the car is not driven in 10 minutes window after remote start.

 

[Kalle.J]

Blockheater and potentially remote start would be golden.

A bunch of 0W listed here with good CCS / MRV / Pourpoint.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...t-cold-weather-oil.378869/page-3#post-6779065

 

[dnewton3]

As for your quest, get a good brand-name PAO based 0w-16 and you'll be fine.


While I realize that the extended warm up is for your convenience, you're actually not doing the car's engine any favors. Long warm-up idle periods are a bad idea because it causes a few serious concerns:
- more condensation in the exhaust stream means it will degrade the exhaust components sooner (rust, etc)
- more cylinder wash-down can certainly cause more engine wear in the cylinders (we've seen plenty of examples in UOAs here)
- more idle time will also contribute to fuel dilution of the lubricant itself, meaning more OCIs are necessary
- it wastes fuel; money may not matter to you, so that is possibly moot
Warming up the engine for just a couple of minutes at -40F isn't a bad idea. But anything past that is not a good idea and detrimental to the vehicle in the long term. The sooner you get in and start driving (reasonably sane) the sooner the engine will warm up from normal loads.

 

[Glenda W.]

Blockheater is a must.

I also warm up my vehicle when it’s that cold. The noises that come from the engine, transmission and every other component in the vehicle are not good if you just drive off. Not to mention you can’t even see out of the windshield from your breath.

 

[bullwinkle]

Something like a Kat's or Zerostart inline circulating coolant heater sounds like the answer-warm up the block enough to get it started, and create some heat in the cooling system so an extended warmup isn't necessary. I have a Wolverine adhesive oil pan heater on my F-450, but since winter isn't really a thing here anymore & I put on a gear reduction starter I haven't needed it.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Block heater is a must and research battery maintainers,they know about winter where you are headed

 

[ka9mnx]

What oils have you used in the past in ND?

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Is this North Dakota or North Alaska? There is a cold air difference in length!

How many overnights of -40 are we talking about? You list three different locations. How long are you in North Dakota yearly and what months?

0w16 is perfect for that climate. So is a five minute remote-start warmup.
Garage and engine heater are optional.

 

[eljefino]

Warm your car up as much as you want. It works for you. You don't work for the car. Just remember the transmission, differentials, and wheel bearings are still cold and unhappy when you start rolling.

Mitigate, with decent oils and maintenance, as best you can.

I have a magnetic 250 watt heater that clunks onto the bottom of the oil pan. It doesn't stay there, I just stick it on there the evenings when I think I'll need it. With temps below -10F you start running into issues like extension cords that don't want to flex thanks to cheap PVC insulation. I lost a starter in college trying to turn over an engine when the conventional oil turned into goop so my particular paranoia shows in what I prioritize in warming.

You used to see Alaskans with 4-way gang boxes under the hood that ran the trifecta of battery blanket (or trickle charger), oil heater, and coolant heater, terminating in one convenient plug.

Toyota (USA) distributes through regional distributors who act as middlemen. I doubt the one covering NC also covers a cold region, so they'd be unlikely to automatically equip vehicles with block heaters.

 

[ejes]

As for your quest, get a good brand-name PAO based 0w-16 and you'll be fine.


While I realize that the extended warm up is for your convenience, you're actually not doing the car's engine any favors. Long warm-up idle periods are a bad idea because it causes a few serious concerns:
- more condensation in the exhaust stream means it will degrade the exhaust components sooner (rust, etc)
- more cylinder wash-down can certainly cause more engine wear in the cylinders (we've seen plenty of examples in UOAs here)
- more idle time will also contribute to fuel dilution of the lubricant itself, meaning more OCIs are necessary
- it wastes fuel; money may not matter to you, so that is possibly moot
Warming up the engine for just a couple of minutes at -40F isn't a bad idea. But anything past that is not a good idea and detrimental to the vehicle in the long term. The sooner you get in and start driving (reasonably sane) the sooner the engine will warm up from normal loads.

This is pretty ironic. The Car Care Nut just posted this video yesterday and is pretty appropriate for this thread.

 

[NiwradND]

Is this North Dakota or North Alaska? There is a cold air difference in length!

How many overnights of -40 are we talking about? You list three different locations. How long are you in North Dakota yearly and what months?

0w16 is perfect for that climate. So is a five minute remote-start warmup.
Garage and engine heater are optional.

0w16 will be fine, but -40 probably won't be the coldest you see at Williston. When i worked there is saw as cold as -50. Thank God the wind was not blowing. You need to be tough to live there, Its not the end of the world but you can see it from there. LOL You need to let your vehicle warm up for at l0 minutes at those temps no matter what people tell you. 15 - 20 minutes is better. We wouldn't shut our equipment off when it was -30 or colder, just let it run all night.