Low power after ignition.

[PeterZarolli]

2009 Toyota Matrix 2.4L, when cold starting the car in the morning, not sub zero degrees or anything just after it has been sitting, it turns over and starts right away but for a few seconds seems to struggle or be low on power, no dim lights or anything and rpm’s seem normal for starting. Replacing my bad old battery seemed to make things better and not as noticeable. I had a previous thread posted where I believed this was only on an incline but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. There are two things I think it could be but let me rule out what I think it isn’t. I don’t think i have a fuel pressure problem and the car doesn’t crank extra just feels low on power after sitting, new spark plugs and battery and my idle RPMS are right where they should be so i don’t think it’s the IACV. My leading theory on what it could be is the oil struggling to be pumped through the system, i only say that because I have been putting Lucas Oil Stabilizer in it for a few years now and just recently I looked into it and from my understanding it makes the oil thicker in a sense so I want to stop using it. I never really paid attention to the starting of my car so the problem could have always been present. My second thought is maybe my starter is going? But this only happens when the car has been sitting. Finally I did notice when changing the battery on the negative lead form the car you could see the copper on the inside of the connector, like the thing you put on the terminal and tighten on on the inside of that.

That’s really all I got, don’t really have any other symptoms besides some ever so slight idle shakes randomly but it has always done that, new engine mounts so I know it’s not them for that issue, Inasusme if my oil is thicker it could cause that as well but i’m not sure. The issue isn’t very concerning but it feels like it might be soon. Again the new battery helped the problem and alternator is charging it fine I used a tester. Any advice is helpful i’ll try to go for an oil change tomorrow regardless as I don’t think i’m buying the lucas doing anything of use anymore

 

[CharBaby]

How does then engine run during the day while driving?
Is the coolant low?
Have you bee loosing any fluids on a regular basis?
Has this engine been an oil burner over the years, even if it's a small amount?
I'm starting to think it could be your catalytic converter...IDK!

 

[Astro14]

Check for vacuum leaks.

 

[Astro14]

How much Lucas do you have in that poor engine?

 

[PeterZarolli]

How much Lucas do you have in that poor engine?

1qrt i believe. Not sure if that’s too much lol

 

[PeterZarolli]

How does then engine run during the day while driving?
Is the coolant low?
Have you bee loosing any fluids on a regular basis?
Has this engine been an oil burner over the years, even if it's a small amount?
I'm starting to think it could be your catalytic converter...IDK!

coolant is not low, no losing any fluids. Never burnt oil as well from what i can tell. honestly, I think it could be that bad terminal as it’s down to bear copper. What makes you think it’s the cat?

 

[Astro14]

1qrt i believe. Not sure if that’s too much lol

I don’t think it’s doing your engine any favors, but I think your low power and poor cold running have other causes.

Unless you’re trying to solve a specific problem, skip the additives in the future.

Motor oil is a carefully balanced formulation to meet the performance specification to which it was blended.

Playing amateur chemist, by adding other things to the mix, typically degrades the performance of that formulation.

Dumping other products in your oil generally isn’t “cheap insurance”, or “just in case” or “a little help”, or “a good idea” - it is merely a wallet flush that degrades the oil on which you’ve already spent enough money.

Spending more money to get lower performance isn’t worth it.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I don’t think it’s doing your engine any favors, but I think your low power and poor cold running have other causes.

Unless you’re trying to solve a specific problem, skip the additives in the future.

Motor oil is a carefully balanced formulation to meet the performance specification to which it was blended.

Playing amateur chemist, by adding other things to the mix, typically degrades the performance of that formulation.

Dumping other products in your oil generally isn’t “cheap insurance”, or “just in case” or “a little help”, or “a good idea” - it is merely a wallet flush that degrades the oil on which you’ve already spent enough money.

Spending more money to get lower performance isn’t worth it.

Ah perfect and yeah i was told by my uncle to use it after the previous engine burnt oil and seized before i started driving it a lot (family car) so i’ve just been adding it. If not that do you have any other ideas on what my issue could be?

 

[Astro14]

I think you have a vacuum leak.

When cold, and the engine is operating in open loop, the effect of the leak is more pronounced.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I think you have a vacuum leak.

When cold, and the engine is operating in open loop, the effect of the leak is more pronounced.

Ok i’ll check for that, just use soapy water on vacuum lines?

 

[PeterZarolli]

I think you have a vacuum leak.

When cold, and the engine is operating in open loop, the effect of the leak is more pronounced.

honestly thinking about it i do remember a whistle noise that almost sounds like a turbo blow off, ofc i don’t have a turbo so i’ll look further

 

[Kira]

How many miles? Is there a fuel filter?

For vacuum checking, something which can be sucked into the engine is what's used. Starting fluid (dangerous) or brake cleaner.
Soapy water is to make visible bubbles on air leaking OUT of something like a tire.

Does the engine performance get better after warm-up?
Maybe the CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) is telling the 'computer' it's warm outside?

Filthy throttle body/intake?

It wasn't mentioned, but I assume there are no codes or CEL.

 

[Astro14]

Ok i’ll check for that, just use soapy water on vacuum lines?

You want to use something combustible. I use ether, but you could use NON-chlorinated brake cleaner, which is heptane and alcohol, or propane.

Here’s the logic: the vacuum leak (which could be in a line, or gasket, or part) is adding extra air, causing the engine to run lean and stumble.

By adding something combustible, you’re adding “fuel” to a fuel-starve mixture and the engine will run smoother, or at least, differently.

So, you carefully squirt a bit of your test stuff near the suspected leak - manifold gasket, throttle body, vacuum lines.

When the engine runs different, you’ve found your leak.

So, deliberately, carefully, introduce small amounts in specific places.

You’re looking for a change.

 

[Marcozi]

Vacuum leaks? Smoke test is the best way to find them.

 

[CharBaby]

[PeterZarolli Asked:] “What makes you think it’s the cat?”

I don’t know that it’s the CAT, it is just a thought based on my own personal experience and how you described your power loss. That’s all!
I think that others who have offered their opinion, could easily be that as well…Vacuum? Sure! Look at that too

Ant trouble codes?
Misfires?

 

[GSCJR]

for a few seconds seems to struggle or be low on power

How so? Please explain.

Replacing my bad old battery seemed to make things better and not as noticeable.

In what fashion?

My leading theory on what it could be is the oil struggling to be pumped through the system, i only say that because I have been putting Lucas Oil Stabilizer in it

but...

it turns over and starts right away

and yet, you think that...

maybe my starter is going

This is normal wear and tear

I did notice when changing the battery on the negative lead form the car you could see the copper on the inside of the connector,

Still trying to figure out what exactly what your problem is. What symptom did it help exactly?

the new battery helped the problem

i’ll try to go for an oil change tomorrow regardless

Why? What will that address? Other than wasting oil and a filter.


Take it to a professional for an assessment, and attempt to reproduce this so called problem with them present. Good luck!

 

[PeterZarolli]

How so? Please explain.

In what fashion?

but...

and yet, you think that...




This is normal wear and tear



Still trying to figure out what exactly what your problem is. What symptom did it help exactly?



Why? What will that address? Other than wasting oil and a filter.


Take it to a professional for an assessment, and attempt to reproduce this so called problem with them present. Good luck!

Unfortunately I work hours from 7am-8or 9pm every day so my only chance to have someone look at the car is on weekends when all shops near me are closed or if I do it myself so I am hesitant to take it to a professional just because I really dont have the time or a real trusted shop near me. Ok now for your questions,

So I will turn the key and it will start with no problem but for a few seconds after starting it feels low on power or like it is struggling, since my gauges do a sweep it is hard to monitor the RPMS so I am not sure if that is the cause in my problem. This post here on this forum is the closest thing I have found to my issue especially auditorily, he has a video of the problem. https://www.evoxforums.com/posts/5296689/
The new battery made the loss in powerless apparent, like it wasnt losing as much power which is why I thought it could be the terminal but if that is normal wear and tear idk if that could cause it. before it felt like it was lower on power as compared to what it feels like now. And I only say my starter is going because In another post on this site, I found someone who would get a similar hesitation after ignition and it was their starter. And like I mentioned I was going to get an oil change as I thought the Lucas I use during oil changes could be too thick when left to sit overnight so I was not going to use some this time around.

Additionally, just now I went to listen for a vacuum leak as I do not have a smoke machine for testing and found that the whole intake hose after the MAF and filter was about half on the throttle, not sure if that could cause problems but the throttle didnt look too bad, just slight black around the edges not thick at all. So I got that clamped back on, too early to tell if it helped with my starting though. I do get the occasional shake or vibration at idle, which you can see in the engine/air filter box shaking slightly but I assumed that was normal and it seemed the fixing of the filter tube or whatever you would call it helped with the shaking slightly in the cabin but not the engine bay if that makes sense but again too early to tell.

That is all I got for right now sorry if it isnt helpful, but let me know what you think.

 

[PeterZarolli]

Unfortunately I work hours from 7am-8or 9pm every day so my only chance to have someone look at the car is on weekends when all shops near me are closed or if I do it myself so I am hesitant to take it to a professional just because I really dont have the time or a real trusted shop near me. Ok now for your questions,

So I will turn the key and it will start with no problem but for a few seconds after starting it feels low on power or like it is struggling, since my gauges do a sweep it is hard to monitor the RPMS so I am not sure if that is the cause in my problem. This post here on this forum is the closest thing I have found to my issue especially auditorily, he has a video of the problem. https://www.evoxforums.com/posts/5296689/
The new battery made the loss in powerless apparent, like it wasnt losing as much power which is why I thought it could be the terminal but if that is normal wear and tear idk if that could cause it. before it felt like it was lower on power as compared to what it feels like now. And I only say my starter is going because In another post on this site, I found someone who would get a similar hesitation after ignition and it was their starter. And like I mentioned I was going to get an oil change as I thought the Lucas I use during oil changes could be too thick when left to sit overnight so I was not going to use some this time around.

Additionally, just now I went to listen for a vacuum leak as I do not have a smoke machine for testing and found that the whole intake hose after the MAF and filter was about half on the throttle, not sure if that could cause problems but the throttle didnt look too bad, just slight black around the edges not thick at all. So I got that clamped back on, too early to tell if it helped with my starting though. I do get the occasional shake or vibration at idle, which you can see in the engine/air filter box shaking slightly but I assumed that was normal and it seemed the fixing of the filter tube or whatever you would call it helped with the shaking slightly in the cabin but not the engine bay if that makes sense but again too early to tell.

That is all I got for right now sorry if it isnt helpful, but let me know what you think.

One more thing I just noticed when putting the strut bar back on and to answer @Kira the engine cover on is a ticking noise possibly coming from the throttle body, a constant click from that area, so I am hesitant to say it is without a doubt from the throttle but that is my best guess.

Unfortunately I work hours from 7am-8or 9pm every day so my only chance to have someone look at the car is on weekends when all shops near me are closed or if I do it myself so I am hesitant to take it to a professional just because I really dont have the time or a real trusted shop near me. Ok now for your questions,

So I will turn the key and it will start with no problem but for a few seconds after starting it feels low on power or like it is struggling, since my gauges do a sweep it is hard to monitor the RPMS so I am not sure if that is the cause in my problem. This post here on this forum is the closest thing I have found to my issue especially auditorily, he has a video of the problem. https://www.evoxforums.com/posts/5296689/
The new battery made the loss in powerless apparent, like it wasnt losing as much power which is why I thought it could be the terminal but if that is normal wear and tear idk if that could cause it. before it felt like it was lower on power as compared to what it feels like now. And I only say my starter is going because In another post on this site, I found someone who would get a similar hesitation after ignition and it was their starter. And like I mentioned I was going to get an oil change as I thought the Lucas I use during oil changes could be too thick when left to sit overnight so I was not going to use some this time around.

Additionally, just now I went to listen for a vacuum leak as I do not have a smoke machine for testing and found that the whole intake hose after the MAF and filter was about half on the throttle, not sure if that could cause problems but the throttle didnt look too bad, just slight black around the edges not thick at all. So I got that clamped back on, too early to tell if it helped with my starting though. I do get the occasional shake or vibration at idle, which you can see in the engine/air filter box shaking slightly but I assumed that was normal and it seemed the fixing of the filter tube or whatever you would call it helped with the shaking slightly in the cabin but not the engine bay if that makes sense but again too early to tell.

That is all I got for right now sorry if it isnt helpful, but let me know what you think.

to clarify the hose was kind of bent inwards, when I took off the filter housing and looking down the tube I could see a little light shining through.

 

[Chris142]

Ok i’ll check for that, just use soapy water on vacuum lines?

They are under vacuum . not pressure.

I would start with changing the oil and filter using the oil that is recomended and nothing else

 

[D60]

-Clean MAF
-Look at live data for water temp before starting-- should be pretty much ambient
-test for vacuum leaks

Any BITOGers near you to help on weekends?