Low Noack

[Foxtrot08]

It doesn't matter, Redline "I guarantee you" will NEVER lower the price or sell a 5 gallon pail of that oil at $14 QT to "sell" their oil to more people. I will be buying HPL for sure because they get it. And we know it is better oil too. Redline is no longer worth my money.

Go see your local P66 distributor and have them price it for you, or keep buying HPL. A P66 distributor isn’t beholden to retail price.


The problem redline has of high prices, is their distribution models compete with each other. Retail vs traditional marketers. Most people need small quantities, so retail wins. It’s not worth it for someone like me to try to distribute it because the only way you can is to price fight.

HPL will always be less expensive than redline because there’s less hands involved. Direct to consumer. For small quantities, definitely the way to go.

 

[burbguy82]

used in an oil may contribute equally (if not more) to intake valve deposits as does a higher NOACK

Sure they may. But the question here is NOACK. Agree with you on more frequent changes for sure. I have never been an advocate of 10k OCI, even with engine that are "easy" on oil.

 

[spasm3]

Many believe VII’s used in an oil may contribute equally (if not more) to intake valve deposits as does a higher NOACK . Therefore in a DI engine I subscribe to keeping your OCI’s on the lower side in mixed driving conditions (3,500 to 4,000 miles / 6 months).

I'm running the No-VII in my DI mazda.

 

[userfriendly]

I don’t know why everyone has their panties in a bunch about Noack. The test does not replicate the conditions inside an engine.
Perhaps instead, heat the oil to 100C in one of Project Farm’s coffee pots for a week and measure how much evaporated over time.

 

[Tom NJ]

Nothing has changed other than RL's location, and now more access to P66's testing facilities. They're also more on top of PDS. Foxtrot mentioned this before too. You can access their PDS very easily.

View attachment 243099

Note in the Composition section of this SDS that they are using a PAO based on 1-Dodecene (C12) rather than the more common 1-Decene (C10). The Dodecene based PAO has a higher VI and lower Noack than the Decene version, but sacrifices a little on the low temperature end. According to a Phillips Petroleum patent dodecene also improves oxidation stability.

Phillips patent

 

[buster]

Note in the Composition section of this SDS that they are using a PAO based on 1-Dodecene (C12) rather than the more common 1-Decene (C10). The Dodecene based PAO has a higher VI and lower Noack than the Decene version, but sacrifices a little on the low temperature end. According to a Phillips Petroleum patent dodecene also improves oxidation stability.

Phillips patent

Thanks Tom I was not aware of all that.

 

[Hohn]

Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 has a Noack of 8.2%, which is probably as low as it gets for a non-boutique 5W-30. It's got really good cold flow properties for a 5W as well. It's currently on sale at Canadian Tire.

And yet after over 5 years of using it, it left a lot of varnish in my odyssey’s j35.

Maybe NOACK doesn’t correlate to varnish as I think it does.

 

[twX]

And yet after over 5 years of using it, it left a lot of varnish in my odyssey’s j35.

Maybe NOACK doesn’t correlate to varnish as I think it does.

I don't think that volatility is related to varnish. Varnish tends to accumulate on parts of the engine that aren't hot enough for volatility to really matter, like under the valve covers.

In the engine test that API uses to assess varnish, the rocker cover temperature is maintained at only 29°C through most of the test in order to promote the formation of varnish. Obviously Noack wouldn't come into play at these temperatures.

My understanding of varnish formation is that oil oxidation occurs in the hotter parts of the engine, which creates varnish particles that are suspended in the oil. When the oil moves to a colder part of the engine, the varnish particles can precipitate out of the oil if they're at a high enough concentration, since they aren't as soluble in colder oil.

 

[Hohn]

Interesting and sensible. The key to varnish prevention then is oxidation prevention, which makes sense.