Fiat (now Stellantis) and diesels haven't been a good combination in the US outside of the Cummins. I hear their little 1.3l diesels in Euro econo-boxes are OK, but so many times I wanted to push a family member's Jeep Liberty with the 2.6l diesel off a cliff.
Lost another one: HEMI #3
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An ~11yr/old fleet used and maintained truck with ~176K miles. I think it did pretty darn good.
I completely agree, but it's pretty rare to get that kind of age/mileage out of any of today's GDI and turbo engines without expensive repairs. Especially in the domestic variety. A replacement GDI, turbo, etc would probably be $12K.I have higher expectations. Any modern car or truck should easily reach 300k without wearing out or having major internal component failures. We have the technology.
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I have higher expectations. Any modern car or truck should easily reach 300k without wearing out or having major internal component failures. We have the technology.
Many hemis well exceed 300k. This link has been posted on a few ram forums, just as an example. 375,000 miles = 603,000 kms.
Power was never the problem with that rig. Jeep issued a detuning flash for the ECU to reduce peak torque so they wouldn't keep eating torque converters.To show it could go over 50 mph?
Some of the big issues we had not covered by warranty or recall were related to EGR causing way too much soot which eventually plugged up along with heavy deposits in the intake manifold, chewed up rocker arms, blown head gasket, cracked head, unubtainium fuel injectors and ECU, dead turbo chargers (2 in 200k miles), common rail low fuel pressure issues (repeatedly). The factory turbo hoses seemed to be low quality based on how often they went bad.
That car got paid for more than twice if you included parts and shop fees and I did a lot of the work myself.
I have higher expectations. Any modern car or truck should easily reach 300k without wearing out or having major internal component failures. We have the technology.
I agree with having higher expectations when it comes to modern vehicles. With that said, the mileage they got out of those Ram's seems to be higher than average mileage before major problems with vehicles these days.
GM's modern 5.3 and 6.2 can’t make it past 50k before packing it in it seems. Our local dealer has had a slew of them come through with lifter issues. There's one down there right now with only 23k on it.
Our PDR guy dumped his GMC Denali because his started to go downhill at 18k. His other vehicle, an F250 Tremor that he’s gotten rid of as well, ate its 10-speed transmission before his first oil change! (only 750 miles)
It seems that the more technology gets thrown at these vehicles, the less reliable they become. It should be the other way around.
burbguy82
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I think that will change soon, with all manufacturers.
The LS was and is still the best engine ever, and should have never went away
Triple_Se7en
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I've never been a fan of 5w20 oils. Always opt for the 5w30.
Same with 0w16. I'll order 0w20 jugs instead.
Same with 0w16. I'll order 0w20 jugs instead.
Maybe they're updated and fail less often, but they definitely still fail. I still see regular posts about lifter failure in the various tech groups on >2018 newer ones, and not all of them are high mileage either.2019 Classic's have the updated lifters right?
I think there's something inherently inferior about the design.
burbguy82
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Funny, a bunch of manufactures are having problems with lifters, big problems, consistent issues, for nearly a decade. And the water weight oil has nothing to do with it?
It's not necessarily the technology, even though that does add complexity, but the poor quality control and crappy engineering to maximize profits. Regarding the Hemi, we really still can't use lifters that last? Ford still can't get cam phasers right? Multiple manufacturers have engines that DRINK oil. My neighbor has a newer F150 with the 5.0 Coyote. Awesome truck, but it literally sounds like a diesel. Anyone not in the know would think it is a Powerstroke. He also said it burns about a quart of oil every 1000 miles since new, and Ford claims that is normal. I'd be really annoyed to have to add that much oil to a brand new truck for how expensive those are, considering both my 15 year old BMW and 26 year old Jeep need zero top off between changes.
It doesn't. The problem is maximizing profits using cheap parts and poor engineering. My dad's 2013 Grand Cherokee 5.7L ate a lifter at 199,9xx and it only saw 0w40/5w40 Euro oils since new.
Chrysler can’t make these lifters/rockers cheap enough.
burbguy82
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Engineers design stuff from given specs, if the given specs suck, then the outcome will suck.
that proves my point, 199k is a lot of miles on any engine, even though some surpass that easily. @ 199k, that is billions of cycles.
burbguy82
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gm oil for 4.8, 5.3 and 6.2 was good old 5w30, it was not until recently they changed to 0w20, like idiots
ram oil for 2011, 5w20
OVERKILL
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From what I recall, the HEMI issue appeared when the lifters changed when they introduced VCT to the engine. The early MDS engines without VCT, like the one in my wife's former '06 Charger, didn't experience the problem.
Ford, GM and FCA (now Stellantis) have all had tremendously poor durability from their roller lifters, which tends to trace back to poor/inconsistent quality, likely having been outsourced to China.
Also, lifter failures with the LS aren't only a "recent years problem", here's an LS2 with one, in the comments, guy with an '05 CTS-V has the same problem, and an '07 LS2 'vette also mentioned:
It became much more common with AFM and got worse with more recent revisions of it. Melling released this TSB in 2018:
SMALL BLOCK & BIG BLOCK OIL PUMP OPTIONS (melling.com)
2007 thread:
How to tell you have a bad lifter? | LS1GTO Forums
Early (pre-AFM) GM "lifter failures" were often caused by the plastic guides failing.
Here's the NHTSA notice from GM showing affected years of 2002 to 2018:
19-NA-219 1..4 (nhtsa.gov)
Based on this, GM's issue pre-dates FCA's considerably.
