looking for MPG and winter safety
- Thread starter wn1998
- Start date
- Status
FWD with good snows is a pretty good combo. For 99% of my driving, either a decent set of summer tires or a set of decently aggressive snow/winter gets the job. But I manage to get my VW stuck about every other year. Either high ended (little ground clearance, lots of snow in NH) or attempting to climb a hill (fronts get unloaded).
If I drove under 20k/year, like say the "average" 12-15kmiles/year, I'd probably go with the 25-30mpg SUV/CUV/whatever. Since I drive more than that, it's kinda hard to justify that expense. Since I can stay home on bad weather days, it's pretty hard to make a low mpg vehicle into my daily driver. If I couldn't stay home, I'd still probably keep my VW, and would just add a winter beater AWD; but I'd probably keep snow/winter tires on both vehicles for winter driving.
Seems to me that you're all set: Jeep for bad weather, and Sentra for anything that isn't so bad. What is either of them getting for mpg?
If I drove under 20k/year, like say the "average" 12-15kmiles/year, I'd probably go with the 25-30mpg SUV/CUV/whatever. Since I drive more than that, it's kinda hard to justify that expense. Since I can stay home on bad weather days, it's pretty hard to make a low mpg vehicle into my daily driver. If I couldn't stay home, I'd still probably keep my VW, and would just add a winter beater AWD; but I'd probably keep snow/winter tires on both vehicles for winter driving.
Seems to me that you're all set: Jeep for bad weather, and Sentra for anything that isn't so bad. What is either of them getting for mpg?
Thanks for all of the replies! I am open to buying new or used. The Jeep is currently getting 15.5mpg and it will be sold off or traded. It currently has a minor transmission shudder that I believe is getting worse and I do not believe it is worth a 3k rebuild.
I may drive the jeep until it blows up but think I may be able to trade it and get more out of it in the next few weeks. I'll have to wait and see if I can find a suitable candidate.
The versa is my wifes daily driver so that won't work for me.
I may drive the jeep until it blows up but think I may be able to trade it and get more out of it in the next few weeks. I'll have to wait and see if I can find a suitable candidate.
The versa is my wifes daily driver so that won't work for me.
Last edited:
Have you considered a Jeep Patriot? It's rated 21/23/26 mpg for the CVT model. That's not super-duper, but would give you good all-weather traction and a moderate amount of ground clearance, and a reasonable level of fuel economy. With your upcoming driving environment, I'd say you can plan to average anywhere between the EPA "combined" and "highway". So the Patriot would likely return mid-20s. Better than mid-teens, and probably a pretty good tool to meet your upcoming requirements.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Have you considered a Jeep Patriot? It's rated 21/23/26 mpg for the CVT model. That's not super-duper, but would give you good all-weather traction and a moderate amount of ground clearance, and a reasonable level of fuel economy. With your upcoming driving environment, I'd say you can plan to average anywhere between the EPA "combined" and "highway". So the Patriot would likely return mid-20s. Better than mid-teens, and probably a pretty good tool to meet your upcoming requirements.
The 2012's are an excellent choice. Lots of room, no rubber-band CVT feel, and the ride/handling/interior are very good. It also looks like a mini Grand Cherokee from the front. I was impressed when test-driving one.
Have you considered a Jeep Patriot? It's rated 21/23/26 mpg for the CVT model. That's not super-duper, but would give you good all-weather traction and a moderate amount of ground clearance, and a reasonable level of fuel economy. With your upcoming driving environment, I'd say you can plan to average anywhere between the EPA "combined" and "highway". So the Patriot would likely return mid-20s. Better than mid-teens, and probably a pretty good tool to meet your upcoming requirements.
The 2012's are an excellent choice. Lots of room, no rubber-band CVT feel, and the ride/handling/interior are very good. It also looks like a mini Grand Cherokee from the front. I was impressed when test-driving one.
In the realm of used, a Saturn Vue with AWD can be nice. With the Honda engine, trannies are known to be problematic, but there are plenty that have already been replaced with stronger reman units. They do very well in the snow and with a little patience you can probably get one cheap enough to add a set of good winter tires which will make a huge difference for any car. They tolerate salt pretty well without rotting away from the bottom up like many other small SUVs. They also seem to do a very good job of folding up the right way to protect occupants in the event of a nasty crash. Interior, ride quality, noise issues, and handling.... not so good.
I looked at a used VUE and was not impressed with what my money could buy. Seems everyone wants a used "cute ute" and the VUE was one of the fore runners. Around here at least they are hot, $6k+ for something 9 years old that sold new for as low as $12495 for a 4 cyl 2wd stick shift.
One I looked under had rear subframe rust and already a new brake line, kind of sad for a 7 year old car.
The early 4wd 4 cyls had a continuously variable trans, DO NOT BUY IT, it's junk.
Could also consider an escape/ tribute.
One I looked under had rear subframe rust and already a new brake line, kind of sad for a 7 year old car.
The early 4wd 4 cyls had a continuously variable trans, DO NOT BUY IT, it's junk.
Could also consider an escape/ tribute.
The JUKE baby!
Since they have probably sold 4, the other 10,000 they built should be pretty affordable. Love em, or hate em; I am in the former crowd. Why drive what everyone else has....
Since they have probably sold 4, the other 10,000 they built should be pretty affordable. Love em, or hate em; I am in the former crowd. Why drive what everyone else has....
I am going to think outside the box here....
Why not two cars, each having a "talent"
Why not get a decent used AWD car for the winter, winter is shorter and not always snow packed socked in.
Why not get a decent used good mpg car for all the rest of the seasons?
Why not two cars, each having a "talent"
Why not get a decent used AWD car for the winter, winter is shorter and not always snow packed socked in.
Why not get a decent used good mpg car for all the rest of the seasons?
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
My wife averages 30 MPG with her 2006 Outback/5 speed manual. The Michelin tires that are on it have well over 70,000 miles and still have plenty of tread left.
We have a long, steep rural drive that drifts in the winter, and we live in a hilly area that is last on the list to get plowed. She's never had the slightest trouble getting home with the Outback, and it's been completely dependable. On occasion we take it to the lake house in the middle of winter, and it's never failed to make it up the unplowed lane or up the unplowed drive.
If you don't like the size of the Outback, a neighbor down the road has an Impreza Outback Sport (2005 I think) and it does just as well in the snow, and I suspect gets even better fuel economy.
We have a long, steep rural drive that drifts in the winter, and we live in a hilly area that is last on the list to get plowed. She's never had the slightest trouble getting home with the Outback, and it's been completely dependable. On occasion we take it to the lake house in the middle of winter, and it's never failed to make it up the unplowed lane or up the unplowed drive.
If you don't like the size of the Outback, a neighbor down the road has an Impreza Outback Sport (2005 I think) and it does just as well in the snow, and I suspect gets even better fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
While a 4WD truck is better in extreme conditions such as blazing a new trail through a pine wood in 18" of snow that may be a bit excessive if the most extreme situation might be of a need to get to work when 8" of snow hasn't been plowed on the side streets yet. A Subaru Forester (car) or many AWD crosdresser SUVs would likely have sufficient ground clearance and enough traction to be more than adequate.
While a Wrangler is (maybe not quite so much the Wrangler Unlimited) very good in the "go anywhere" department, that doesn't mean it can safely do it with much of any speed. For milder conditions there are other vehicles that are not too much more likely to get stuck, while ride better, can safely move faster, and can do all of this using less fuel.
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
While a 4WD truck is better in extreme conditions such as blazing a new trail through a pine wood in 18" of snow that may be a bit excessive if the most extreme situation might be of a need to get to work when 8" of snow hasn't been plowed on the side streets yet. A Subaru Forester (car) or many AWD crosdresser SUVs would likely have sufficient ground clearance and enough traction to be more than adequate.
While a Wrangler is (maybe not quite so much the Wrangler Unlimited) very good in the "go anywhere" department, that doesn't mean it can safely do it with much of any speed. For milder conditions there are other vehicles that are not too much more likely to get stuck, while ride better, can safely move faster, and can do all of this using less fuel.
Any FWD econobox with dedicate snow tires in the winter would be good.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
I think if there's a foot of snow on the highway then the OP is better off staying home... I guess heavy drifting isn't beyond the realm of possibility but I guess if the OP is going to prepare for any situation, he'd better get a pickup and haul a ski-doo in it for when the drifts high centre the truck...
I have a similar commute and once or twice a winter I wait an hour or two to start my drive, not because my car won't make it, but just to keep me away from all the crazies determined to do 60mph in their SUV to get to work on time.
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
AWD cars work quite well but the problem is like all cars they lack ground clearance. So if your trying to blaze a trail threw a foot of snow or more forget about it with any car, I don't care what it is or what tires are on it.
A truck OTOH with proper ground clearance and tires, and real 4wd would do just fine.
I think if there's a foot of snow on the highway then the OP is better off staying home... I guess heavy drifting isn't beyond the realm of possibility but I guess if the OP is going to prepare for any situation, he'd better get a pickup and haul a ski-doo in it for when the drifts high centre the truck...
I have a similar commute and once or twice a winter I wait an hour or two to start my drive, not because my car won't make it, but just to keep me away from all the crazies determined to do 60mph in their SUV to get to work on time.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Win, what you describe is almost exactly my situation. I live outside of Buffalo in very hilly ski country and have an ~80mi work commute (to and from the City of Niagara Falls).
I've owned various FWD, AWD and 4x4's and presently own a 2012 Subaru Legacy. They've all got there good/bad points. I loved my 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD 2.7L, I just didn't care for the 20mpg. Same with my Isuzu Rodeo and Trailblazer. 18-19mpg max.
I'm getting 31mpg tank to tank with my new Subaru. It's the best AWD system you're going to get for the money. There's really no added maintenance cost aside from if you have a bad tire and have to replace all 4.
Joel
I've owned various FWD, AWD and 4x4's and presently own a 2012 Subaru Legacy. They've all got there good/bad points. I loved my 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD 2.7L, I just didn't care for the 20mpg. Same with my Isuzu Rodeo and Trailblazer. 18-19mpg max.
I'm getting 31mpg tank to tank with my new Subaru. It's the best AWD system you're going to get for the money. There's really no added maintenance cost aside from if you have a bad tire and have to replace all 4.
Joel
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
To be fair, the best a Wrangler is rated is 21 highway (for 6MT), or 20 highway for 5AT. 25 mpg is smashing either number, and by 20-25%. He either has a very frugal example of one or drives in some uncommonly ideal conditions for fuel mileage.
My buddy just bought a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door and is getting 25mpg on the highway.
To be fair, the best a Wrangler is rated is 21 highway (for 6MT), or 20 highway for 5AT. 25 mpg is smashing either number, and by 20-25%. He either has a very frugal example of one or drives in some uncommonly ideal conditions for fuel mileage.
My choice would be a midsize or small pickup - Think Toyota Tacoma, Chev Colorado, or Nissan Frontier 4X4. But then again, I always plan for worst case scenarios. Depending on the amount of snowfall, even an Outback may not get you the ground clearance you need. And I would want the best possible vehicle for the job, especially if for some reason you go off the road or need to get out of a really sticky situation.
I currently drive a 4X4 Colorado and feel very confident it would handle deep snow well[ABS, G80 auto locking rear], even with just 4 good all season M&S tires[Michelin LTX AT/2]. If I were in an area that had lots of snow all winter long, I may go the dedicated snowtire route - think Blizzak.
My previous vehicle was great in the snow - a 1990 AWD Astro - except when there was close to a foot of heavy, unplowed snow. Then the ground clearance could have been better. Hence the move up to the Colorado.
Everything is a compromise. To me, getting 18 mpg avg. in my Colorado is acceptabble given its capabilities. My commute is 20 mi. each way.
YMMV
I currently drive a 4X4 Colorado and feel very confident it would handle deep snow well[ABS, G80 auto locking rear], even with just 4 good all season M&S tires[Michelin LTX AT/2]. If I were in an area that had lots of snow all winter long, I may go the dedicated snowtire route - think Blizzak.
My previous vehicle was great in the snow - a 1990 AWD Astro - except when there was close to a foot of heavy, unplowed snow. Then the ground clearance could have been better. Hence the move up to the Colorado.
Everything is a compromise. To me, getting 18 mpg avg. in my Colorado is acceptabble given its capabilities. My commute is 20 mi. each way.
YMMV
I understand what you are saying about the Jeep having issues, BUT, I'd do something like change the transmission fluid and add some Lube Guard Red to it, to see if you can get a couple more years out of it.
You can buy a LOT of gas for your paid-for Jeep with the $20k you will spend on a new or nearly new vehicle....
You can buy a LOT of gas for your paid-for Jeep with the $20k you will spend on a new or nearly new vehicle....
New: 2012 Impreza (4 or 5 door - I think the 5 door looks better).
OR: Used outback (prev. generation looks better but current gen might have higher clearence - MPG not as good as Impreza though)..
Older Audi A4 wagon quatro or A3 quatro?
OR: Used outback (prev. generation looks better but current gen might have higher clearence - MPG not as good as Impreza though)..
Older Audi A4 wagon quatro or A3 quatro?
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I understand what you are saying about the Jeep having issues, BUT, I'd do something like change the transmission fluid and add some Lube Guard Red to it, to see if you can get a couple more years out of it.
You can buy a LOT of gas for your paid-for Jeep with the $20k you will spend on a new or nearly new vehicle....
After test driving a 2012 Subaru impreza, 12 Chevy Cruise eco, 09 civic, 10 VW TDI and a 12 FIT. I was super confused about what to buy. Although I was leaning towards the used TDI (torque monster).
Two of the dealerships said I could expect about 2500 trade-in for my current 98 Grand Cherokee. I just decided it wasn't worth it at the time to go with a car payment ($300-$400). Knowing that I can get $750 at the junkyard with a jeep that doesn't run, I think I'll just stick with the jeep until I "Need" to go to something different (blown transmission etc)
I thank you all for your suggestions but in the end, I think I want to put off a car payment as long as possible. I know I'll be spending $75-$125 a week on gas however, that is much better than $40-$65 a week on gas along with a $350 car payment.
I understand what you are saying about the Jeep having issues, BUT, I'd do something like change the transmission fluid and add some Lube Guard Red to it, to see if you can get a couple more years out of it.
You can buy a LOT of gas for your paid-for Jeep with the $20k you will spend on a new or nearly new vehicle....
After test driving a 2012 Subaru impreza, 12 Chevy Cruise eco, 09 civic, 10 VW TDI and a 12 FIT. I was super confused about what to buy. Although I was leaning towards the used TDI (torque monster).
Two of the dealerships said I could expect about 2500 trade-in for my current 98 Grand Cherokee. I just decided it wasn't worth it at the time to go with a car payment ($300-$400). Knowing that I can get $750 at the junkyard with a jeep that doesn't run, I think I'll just stick with the jeep until I "Need" to go to something different (blown transmission etc)
I thank you all for your suggestions but in the end, I think I want to put off a car payment as long as possible. I know I'll be spending $75-$125 a week on gas however, that is much better than $40-$65 a week on gas along with a $350 car payment.
Last edited:
- Status
