LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Longevity of low end serpentine belt
- Thread starter Deontologist
- Start date
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
Quality belt like Gates are worth it. Our family has a 2001 Isuzu Trooper. Around 2010(?), we changed the factory belt because it was starting to crack. We replaced it with a CARQUEST belt, which I think was a Gates belt. I replaced it again last year because it was starting to crack again. The Trooper has 158,000+ miles on it. So, almost ten years out of both belts, I think that is good life. Also, both belts didn't make any noises, just starting to crack.
Our Dad's 2006 Tundra original belt start squealing around 2014, in 2015 I replaced it with the belt I bought at the Toyota dealer. The replacement belt was clearly stamped Dayco on it. I was hoping for similar life compared to the factory belt. It didn't happen, last year started squealing again. Went to O'reilly's and bought a Gates belt. It has been quiet since. Hoping it stays quiet for more years yet.
Our Dad's 2006 Tundra original belt start squealing around 2014, in 2015 I replaced it with the belt I bought at the Toyota dealer. The replacement belt was clearly stamped Dayco on it. I was hoping for similar life compared to the factory belt. It didn't happen, last year started squealing again. Went to O'reilly's and bought a Gates belt. It has been quiet since. Hoping it stays quiet for more years yet.
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Originally Posted by Dufus2
BTW: Stay away from Bando because it don't fit right (too small) and the grooves are not formed properly.
Lately, they have been the least problematic brand for me.
BTW: Stay away from Bando because it don't fit right (too small) and the grooves are not formed properly.
Lately, they have been the least problematic brand for me.
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
Unless we are talking about a BMW inline 6 engine. On those, a serpentine belt failure is just as catastrophic as a timing belt failure.
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
Unless we are talking about a BMW inline 6 engine. On those, a serpentine belt failure is just as catastrophic as a timing belt failure.
So no one has any actual experience with a low end serpentine belt.
Tell you what, I'm going to keep a serpentine belt tool in my car with a nice, quality Dayco belt and run the MasterPro belt until it breaks so I can contribute a useful data point. The belt is pretty simple to change.
I've been revving the car up to the fuel cutoff at just over 6k and the MasterPro belt has survived. I actually just put 350 highway miles on the MP belt and I hit the fuel cutoff a few dozen times.
It'll be interesting to see how many miles I can get out the belt.
Tell you what, I'm going to keep a serpentine belt tool in my car with a nice, quality Dayco belt and run the MasterPro belt until it breaks so I can contribute a useful data point. The belt is pretty simple to change.
I've been revving the car up to the fuel cutoff at just over 6k and the MasterPro belt has survived. I actually just put 350 highway miles on the MP belt and I hit the fuel cutoff a few dozen times.
It'll be interesting to see how many miles I can get out the belt.
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Revving the engine on a 350 mile trip isn't a quality test of a serpentine belt. Heat, time, and mileage are.
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
Unless we are talking about a BMW inline 6 engine. On those, a serpentine belt failure is just as catastrophic as a timing belt failure.
How so?
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL because its always worth risking your engine to save $10 on a cheaper serpentine belt.
Serpentine belt is not the same as a timing belt.
Unless we are talking about a BMW inline 6 engine. On those, a serpentine belt failure is just as catastrophic as a timing belt failure.
How so?
Originally Posted by Dufus2
Expect the budget belts to last about a year possibly two years at best. I bought some belts from Toyota and they were garbage, went to Napa and the Gates lasted 3X longer.
This is interesting as I just learned the same lesson on my '07 4Runner. Last year I replaced the two upper idler pulleys and serp belt with Toyota parts as PM during my timing chain project...13 months and ~38K miles later, it developed a chirp at cold startup which rapidly escalated to a squeal at operating temp. Spraying water on the belt while the engine was running silenced the squeal. Switching AC on/off had no effect on the noise.
With the belt removed, one of the Toyota idlers had a wobble while still hot and became stiff to rotate when it cooled. The other pulley had no wobble, but freewheeled way too much for my liking as if the grease was gone. Neither had any indication of grease leakage, but the red seals were faded from original red color to pink which may indicate overheating.
I replaced both pulleys with NAPA parts (said Gates on the boxes), but re-used the Toyota (Bando) belt and it squealed even louder. Possibly it was damaged/glazed while running with the one pulley tilted? NAPA was closed by that time, so I reinstalled the old Dayco belt I'd removed last year and kept as a spare, and no further noise.
Of note, both idlers were installed and torqued to 29 lb/ft per the Toyota shop manual, no risk of overtightening contributing to the early failure of the pulley bearing. These were bought from a reputable Toyota dealer via online order. I emailed them with pics of the parts and a video of the wobble, we'll see if they will warranty or whatever.
Expect the budget belts to last about a year possibly two years at best. I bought some belts from Toyota and they were garbage, went to Napa and the Gates lasted 3X longer.
This is interesting as I just learned the same lesson on my '07 4Runner. Last year I replaced the two upper idler pulleys and serp belt with Toyota parts as PM during my timing chain project...13 months and ~38K miles later, it developed a chirp at cold startup which rapidly escalated to a squeal at operating temp. Spraying water on the belt while the engine was running silenced the squeal. Switching AC on/off had no effect on the noise.
With the belt removed, one of the Toyota idlers had a wobble while still hot and became stiff to rotate when it cooled. The other pulley had no wobble, but freewheeled way too much for my liking as if the grease was gone. Neither had any indication of grease leakage, but the red seals were faded from original red color to pink which may indicate overheating.
I replaced both pulleys with NAPA parts (said Gates on the boxes), but re-used the Toyota (Bando) belt and it squealed even louder. Possibly it was damaged/glazed while running with the one pulley tilted? NAPA was closed by that time, so I reinstalled the old Dayco belt I'd removed last year and kept as a spare, and no further noise.
Of note, both idlers were installed and torqued to 29 lb/ft per the Toyota shop manual, no risk of overtightening contributing to the early failure of the pulley bearing. These were bought from a reputable Toyota dealer via online order. I emailed them with pics of the parts and a video of the wobble, we'll see if they will warranty or whatever.
Originally Posted by crainholio
Originally Posted by Dufus2
Expect the budget belts to last about a year possibly two years at best. I bought some belts from Toyota and they were garbage, went to Napa and the Gates lasted 3X longer.
This is interesting as I just learned the same lesson on my '07 4Runner. Last year I replaced the two upper idler pulleys and serp belt with Toyota parts as PM during my timing chain project...13 months and ~38K miles later, it developed a chirp at cold startup which rapidly escalated to a squeal at operating temp. Spraying water on the belt while the engine was running silenced the squeal. Switching AC on/off had no effect on the noise.
Interestingly, Dayco says that OEM belts are fine, but they were really designed for brand new belt drive systems. After time, pulley alignment deviates from factory spec, and if you try to install a OEM belt, you might not get satisfactory results because the OEM belt was designed around a brand new, unworn belt system. Cars going down the production line have brand new and well-aligned pulleys; there's no need to design a belt that can accommodate a variety of issues from slightly misaligned pulleys, slightly wobbly pulleys, etc. The aftermarket belts, however, are designed to work around slight misalignments--hence the availability of "W" profile (as opposed to "V" profile) teeth, and of course, Goodyear/Continental's Gatorback/Quiet Channel Tech belts.
Quote
Of note, both idlers were installed and torqued to 29 lb/ft per the Toyota shop manual, no risk of overtightening contributing to the early failure of the pulley bearing. These were bought from a reputable Toyota dealer via online order. I emailed them with pics of the parts and a video of the wobble, we'll see if they will warranty or whatever.
Did you use a laser alignment tool to measure alignment?
Also, please keep us posted about your warranty experience. I read that all Toyota/Lexus parts come with a 1 year "factory" warranty, but I wonder how difficult it is to actually cash-in on that warranty.
Originally Posted by Dufus2
Expect the budget belts to last about a year possibly two years at best. I bought some belts from Toyota and they were garbage, went to Napa and the Gates lasted 3X longer.
This is interesting as I just learned the same lesson on my '07 4Runner. Last year I replaced the two upper idler pulleys and serp belt with Toyota parts as PM during my timing chain project...13 months and ~38K miles later, it developed a chirp at cold startup which rapidly escalated to a squeal at operating temp. Spraying water on the belt while the engine was running silenced the squeal. Switching AC on/off had no effect on the noise.
Interestingly, Dayco says that OEM belts are fine, but they were really designed for brand new belt drive systems. After time, pulley alignment deviates from factory spec, and if you try to install a OEM belt, you might not get satisfactory results because the OEM belt was designed around a brand new, unworn belt system. Cars going down the production line have brand new and well-aligned pulleys; there's no need to design a belt that can accommodate a variety of issues from slightly misaligned pulleys, slightly wobbly pulleys, etc. The aftermarket belts, however, are designed to work around slight misalignments--hence the availability of "W" profile (as opposed to "V" profile) teeth, and of course, Goodyear/Continental's Gatorback/Quiet Channel Tech belts.
Quote
Of note, both idlers were installed and torqued to 29 lb/ft per the Toyota shop manual, no risk of overtightening contributing to the early failure of the pulley bearing. These were bought from a reputable Toyota dealer via online order. I emailed them with pics of the parts and a video of the wobble, we'll see if they will warranty or whatever.
Did you use a laser alignment tool to measure alignment?
Also, please keep us posted about your warranty experience. I read that all Toyota/Lexus parts come with a 1 year "factory" warranty, but I wonder how difficult it is to actually cash-in on that warranty.
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I went through two of the Autozone belts on a Chrysler Minivan in short order. Water pump went out so we replaced it and put a new Autozone belt on. It separated, started slapping then shredded about a week later. The only thing I could see out of alignment was the belt ran slightly off-center on the idler pulley so I replace that along with a new belt. It also shredded in about a week. After much head scratching, I went to O'Reilly's and bought a Gates belt. Still running fine now two years later...
I sell MasterPro belts every day and have used them myself and they were fine. Yes occasionally one comes back under warranty but I bet most of the time the problem is in the belt drive system, not the belt itself. Besides, guess who makes MasterPro belts? Hint: Gates.
Originally Posted by Scout1
I went through two of the Autozone belts on a Chrysler Minivan in short order. Water pump went out so we replaced it and put a new Autozone belt on. It separated, started slapping then shredded about a week later. The only thing I could see out of alignment was the belt ran slightly off-center on the idler pulley so I replace that along with a new belt. It also shredded in about a week. After much head scratching, I went to O'Reilly's and bought a Gates belt. Still running fine now two years later...
Thank you for the data point. You are the first person in this thread who has related an actual experience with cheap belts. At least my house brand part has lasted more than a week! I don't know how much longer it's got, but we'll see.
Originally Posted by dogememe
I sell MasterPro belts every day and have used them myself and they were fine. Yes occasionally one comes back under warranty but I bet most of the time the problem is in the belt drive system, not the belt itself. Besides, guess who makes MasterPro belts? Hint: Gates.
Same, when I worked at the big O, I never had any serpentine belt come back under warranty, be it Gates or MasterPro. My belt drive system is still fine as far as I can tell--no play when spinning the pulleys by hand.
The MasterPro belt definitely appears cheaper than the Gates. The outer rubber layer has a bunch of what look like indentations/cracks running the length of the belt. The Gates looks better, cosmetically. The outer layer (the opposite of the ribbed side) is very smooth, with no visible indentations/cracks.
I went through two of the Autozone belts on a Chrysler Minivan in short order. Water pump went out so we replaced it and put a new Autozone belt on. It separated, started slapping then shredded about a week later. The only thing I could see out of alignment was the belt ran slightly off-center on the idler pulley so I replace that along with a new belt. It also shredded in about a week. After much head scratching, I went to O'Reilly's and bought a Gates belt. Still running fine now two years later...
Thank you for the data point. You are the first person in this thread who has related an actual experience with cheap belts. At least my house brand part has lasted more than a week! I don't know how much longer it's got, but we'll see.
Originally Posted by dogememe
I sell MasterPro belts every day and have used them myself and they were fine. Yes occasionally one comes back under warranty but I bet most of the time the problem is in the belt drive system, not the belt itself. Besides, guess who makes MasterPro belts? Hint: Gates.
Same, when I worked at the big O, I never had any serpentine belt come back under warranty, be it Gates or MasterPro. My belt drive system is still fine as far as I can tell--no play when spinning the pulleys by hand.
The MasterPro belt definitely appears cheaper than the Gates. The outer rubber layer has a bunch of what look like indentations/cracks running the length of the belt. The Gates looks better, cosmetically. The outer layer (the opposite of the ribbed side) is very smooth, with no visible indentations/cracks.
I won't bother buying another MasterPro belt.
I had one that worked without issues until it failed suddently (shredded) at an unacceptably low 24K miles. Although it was several years old (warranty is a year) , I had not considered replacing it at such a low mileage. It had not shown any obvious hints of impending disaster, although it was only inspected visually (no cracks) and not with a gauge. Interestingly, although it did not actually break completely, it split and one of the flailing ribs severed some wires, rendering the vehicle inoperable (requring a tow).
Yes, a statistically small group, but I think the very small difference in price fully justifies buying one of the better recognized brands for a bit of peace of mind.
I had one that worked without issues until it failed suddently (shredded) at an unacceptably low 24K miles. Although it was several years old (warranty is a year) , I had not considered replacing it at such a low mileage. It had not shown any obvious hints of impending disaster, although it was only inspected visually (no cracks) and not with a gauge. Interestingly, although it did not actually break completely, it split and one of the flailing ribs severed some wires, rendering the vehicle inoperable (requring a tow).
Yes, a statistically small group, but I think the very small difference in price fully justifies buying one of the better recognized brands for a bit of peace of mind.
Some of the engines (like my n54) have a nasty habit of sucking in belt shards through the front seal, plugging up the oil pump screen, or even getting jammed in the timing chain system and pulling the valves out of time since the sprockets are pressed - not keyed - onto the crank. So if you're lucky, you just have to pull the pan and clean up the mess. If you're unlucky, your valves are smashed.
Why does this happen in the first place? The oil filter housing gaskets fail every 3 years. Oil drips onto the belt which is directly below. So your low mileage belt snaps because it's been soaking up oil. Then the above happens. Looking at my service records, it happened to the last owner of mine, but it only tore apart the tensioners and broke the power steering pulley.
My oil filter housing gasket is 3 years old and starting to leak again. It has one bolt that sits alongside the intake manifold. So the 3-bolt project turns into a couple hours to pop the intake loose, something that I can now do in about 25 minutes. I get paranoid if my belt goes north of 30k miles, and I hate that I replace it knowing it can go at least 3x longer. But I'm at 234,000 miles on an engine that most people can't get past 100k, and it sounds better now than when I bought it.
Welcome to BMWs!
I've used a lot of different brands of serpentine belts including store brands and never had a problem with any of them. I just took one off one of my cars a couple months ago that I think had been on it for about 10 years. The only reason I changed it is because I was having to replace the alternator and the belt was already off so, I thought it was a good time to change it. I stuck the old belt in the trunk and wouldn't hesitate to put it back on to use in an emergency situation. The old '88 Ford Escort that I had that went 518K miles over a period of about 22-23 years probably never had the serpentine belt changed more than 2 or 3 times and none of them broke or shredded. I think when I replaced it in the '88 I used an Auto Zone Duralast. In my experience all serpentine belts last much better than the old "V" belts that were used years ago. Do what you want but, if it were me I'd change it, throw the old belt in the trunk as a spare and enjoy my trip.
I’ve not had any recent issues with serpentine belts. Last major thing that happened belt-wise was on a (now junked by its new owner) 1994 Cadillac Sedan deVille with the 4.9 V8 (not the Northstar).
I had replaced it in February 2004 on the warmest day (25 degrees), as part of a water pump replacement. That is another nightmare on those cars. Flash forward to May of that year... driving along bringing my niece home at 65 mph and suddenly the car gets warm inside, and it’s warning me that the alternator isn’t charging, and a few other warnings. I pull off in the nearby fuel stop and see the belt, shredded to pieces. Park the car, call for a ride.
My analysis when I came back: it’s not the belt but the water pump pulley. These cars’ design fault is the stamped steel pulley has a central hole surrounded by 4 mounting bolt holes, all close together. Wear on the pulley (the car had 200k on it at the time) tore the steel between the holes and it wobbled off, tearing up the belt.
Got a pulley from a salvage yard, new store brand belt and fixed the issue. But again, that was a pulley failure, not the belt.
Nowadays I’d replace everything, including tensioner, to do it properly.
I had replaced it in February 2004 on the warmest day (25 degrees), as part of a water pump replacement. That is another nightmare on those cars. Flash forward to May of that year... driving along bringing my niece home at 65 mph and suddenly the car gets warm inside, and it’s warning me that the alternator isn’t charging, and a few other warnings. I pull off in the nearby fuel stop and see the belt, shredded to pieces. Park the car, call for a ride.
My analysis when I came back: it’s not the belt but the water pump pulley. These cars’ design fault is the stamped steel pulley has a central hole surrounded by 4 mounting bolt holes, all close together. Wear on the pulley (the car had 200k on it at the time) tore the steel between the holes and it wobbled off, tearing up the belt.
Got a pulley from a salvage yard, new store brand belt and fixed the issue. But again, that was a pulley failure, not the belt.
Nowadays I’d replace everything, including tensioner, to do it properly.
Never had a problem with a Bando, good belts. Ditto Mitsuboshi, Dayco W, Gates micro-V, AC Delco. The only ones I have had a real problem with was Gatorback (whine noise with all of them) and Contitech (squealing) on multiple applications.
I never used cheap belts, hoses or gaskets and never will, way too much risk for very minimal savings.
The factory SB went on a friends 2011 Traverse with 207k miles. They learned the hard way on not changing it sooner.
