Originally Posted By: daman
you sure it wasn't varnish you were seeing? ive had N/A 3800's and SC 3800's,some apart for the LIM gasket repair and they have been clean,but i do run synthetics.
still these engines are not known for sludge,could you of had an abused one?
Daman,
I have to guess about it, but I think it did see some abuse as you similarly suspect. I have also seen inside some other 3800's so I also do not believe the engine itself is a sludger.
Some of the abuse I know it suffered: The PCV valve was the worst slimed up mess I've ever seen in my life. I believe it had not been replaced in the 104k miles since new. That's abuse - plain and simple. That the car wasn't burning oil was a miracle.
In addition: If I had to guess, I'd say they may have been running some lesser dino oil past it's mileage limits. Or, it could be that their driving routing never warmed the engine up though I didn't see the other signs of that.
There was some varnish as you suspected. In addition, though, I saw some off white jelled oil (?) in 3 places in the back valve cover. Guessing condensate maybe from recently ingested coolant from the EGR passage beginning to seep in the UIM. Or maybe condensate from not getting fully warmed up.
The oil pan had some goopy sludge in the bottom of it. It looked like maybe someone had run a flush solution or something and that brought the goop down.
While I had the pan off, I found that the oil pump pickup certainly was NOT plugged or anything, but was "partially gooped" with this slime. I attributed that to it having a super fine screen mesh in it.
So I replaced the screen assembly with a new one from CarQuest. Had to order it in from Denver. It had a normal screen mesh in it about like you'd expect for an old small block chevy screen instead of the super fine mesh. And, it had a lot deeper cup to it than the stocker. Not sure if that really helps or not. HOWEVER - when super cold here (and it gets super cold) - the oil pressure gauge snaps up to pressure MUCH more quickly now than it did before dropping the pan.
For the record, the only reason I removed the pan and valve covers in the first place was because the gaskets has gone flat and were leaking. I put in the new Fel-Pro Perma-Dry pan gasket. I did clean out most of the sludge I could get to while I had it apart.
There were certainly not huge buildups of sludge.
I think perhaps some of the "goopy" stuff in the oil pan was because the threaded block in the pan for the oil drain plug is located up quite a bit. After draining, when I took down the pan it had a least 1/2 quart of this stuff in the bottom.
Well, if the pan doesn't totally drain itself, that could contribute to it.
YMMV since I suspect where this threaded block gets resistance welded into the pan can vary, too.
I don't think anything was there that was going to cause any big problems. But I still didn't like it.
I have an old shop vac that I use for slimy wet jobs. So I took a tubing bender and shaped some copper 5/16" tubing into a J shaped hook and duct taped it to one of the older smaller nozzles for the shop vac.
So anyway, after the UIM/LIM refit, I was jumpy about making sure all contaminants got out so after the hot oil drain, I used the J hook nozzle to vacuum out the pan through the drain plug hole.
It was interesting - the copper tubing turned pretty hot to the touch whenever it was sucking out the remaining hot oil. After it had cleared, the tubing cooled off pretty quickly. From almost to hot to touch to more like luke warm.
This has risks, too, of course. Scraping off copper debris into the pan due to the drain plug hole threads... or inadvertently introducing contaminants if the J hook isn't totally clean.
Anyway, this hare-brained scheme was, once again, because I was jumpy about coolant contamination maybe being in the oil following the procedure.
So anyway, I think you nailed it. My humble opinion agrees with your own. That is, the engine design is NOT a sludger; it's more likely that my engine saw some individualized abuse.
I really looked the car over well before I bought it and showed the guy all the leaks and likely problems. It was a calculated gamble. Part of the reason I bought it even with the risks was my Dad has owned 2 of the Gen II cars and they have been "rock of gibraltar" tough. So I thought it would probably be ok.
It's way better than ok. Since getting rid of all the leaks during the UIM/LIM, there is no oil leakage or consumption. The power is great. I think it appreciates the new PCV valve, too!
It's dirty enough inside that I'm a little spooky about putting the new PP 5w30 in it, but input from BITOG 3800 owners - yourself included - has put me at ease.
I'll continue to accelerate the OCI's until I think it's cleaned out. If for any reason hot idle oil pressure drops below baselines, I'll drop the pan and clean it out - though I doubt this will be necessary.
The point is, if necessary, I'll do the work before letting such a super engine get hurt.
Thank you once again for your continuing input! I can see why the 3800's have such a cult following! I just joined that cult!
As an aside, I've owned 52 cars of various makes and models. Part of that was growing up in a gearhead environment. Anyway, I'm not easily impressed. But I really like the 3800's!
Larry S.
10*B
