Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40

Marcozi said:
I wonder if this LM oil is fully synthetic, or is it a Group 3 base stock oil.

Edit: the German language spec sheet does not state that this is a fully synthetic oil!! This is the google translation:
"Modern, top-class, smooth-running motor oil for the year-round use in petrol and Diesel engines without a diesel particulate filter (DPF). The Combination of unconventional base oils Synthesis technology with the latest Additive technology guarantee an engine oil that
Reduces oil and fuel consumption and for a rapid oiling of the engine. Depending onOil change intervals can be specified by the manufacturer of up to 40,000 km."

Here's the US spec sheet: "Top class fully synthetic, all-season motor oil for superior performance and long engine life. For gasoline and diesel vehicles without particulate filters (GPF/DPF). Exceeds strict test requirements specified by major manufacturers. Safe with catalytic converters and turbochargers. Use with extended oil change intervals as per manufacturer."

As you may know it's illegal in Germany to state that an oil is "synthetic" when it's a group 3 base stock. It is ok in the US to state that it's "synthetic" when it's a group 3 base stock. Years ago Mobil was sued in a US court because it claimed that Mobil 1 was synthetic even though it's a group 3 base stock that had been hydrocracked and the resulting polymers "re-assembled" into a "synthetic" oil. Mobil won the court case. However, a similar suit in a German court ended with the ruling that Mobil's process to create a "synthetic" oil does not result in a truly synthetic oil.

Ruling: this LM is not a true synthetic oil in the German sense of the phrase!
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Yes, this is well known for the Leichtlauf High Tech. Only a few of their oils can be labeled "Vollsynthetisches" in Germany - just look at the bottles on their European site. One is the Synthoil Energy 0W40 but it doesn't carry much in the way of approvals (only recommended for which is really just fine here)....not sure it's worth running over the Group 3 LLHT (Synthesetechnologie) that has LL01/VW502/A40 etc.
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The synthetic oils today are so good, it doesn't have to be a pure fully synthetic. It's all a matter of money.
 
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TiGeo said:
Yes, this is well known for the Leichtlauf High Tech. Only a few of their oils can be labeled "Vollsynthetisches" in Germany - just look at the bottles on their European site. One is the Synthoil Energy 0W40 but it doesn't carry much in the way of approvals (only recommended for which is really just fine here)....not sure it's worth running over the Group 3 LLHT (Synthesetechnologie) that has LL01/VW502/A40 etc.
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I think Synthoil Energy has been rebranded as Synthoil A40 or similar since LM had it approved for Porsche A40.
 
For some weird reason I have always wanted to try the 0W40 LM...maybe I'll do it this year.
 
Ok I see it now. Synthoil Energy A40. Interesting. Aimed at the Porsche folks.
 
TiGeo said:
Interesting that the TBN is a bit lower than LM shows on their most recent spec sheet (11.3 vs. BS's 9.2) and the viscosity @ 100C is a bit different too (13.5 vs. 14)..close. I just wanted real-world starting points to tweak my OCIs.

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May as well buy some ST from Walmart and save a ton of money
 
Curious, have you done any oil analysis’s on the API SP revision of the Leichtlauf? Judging by the dates on their spec sheets and the VOA post, I’m assuming this wasn’t the API SP one. Asking out of curiosity. My AAP has a deal on LM and when looking at the jug I noticed their stock was API SP. (yes I took advantage of it)
 
Hi. I know I'm late but this oil has a pretty high calcium content. Isn't that quite dangerous in direct injection turbo engines because it will cause in cylinder knock and reduce the overall life
 
kloogmeister said:
Hi. I know I'm late but this oil has a pretty high calcium content. Isn't that quite dangerous in direct injection turbo engines because it will cause in cylinder knock and reduce the overall life
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LSPI is more rare than it is made out to be around here. Typically an issue with v. small displacement GTDI engines.
 
TiGeo said:
LSPI is more rare than it is made out to be around here. Typically an issue with v. small displacement GTDI engines.
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Sure. And the lack of widespread failure shows that but..
Mk8 gti has a bunch of variables that all help lspi happen.


1. Direct injection
2. Turbo
3. Single scroll small turbo which provides low end torque (271 @ 1600rpm)
4. Calls for 87 aki octane
5. More likely to be driven aggressively (hot hatch)

I checked and the recommended oil, vw 508 0w20 is low calcium and this new standard was created due to research into lapi

The mk7 gti used a high calcium oil but was probably offset by it's required use of 91 aki octane.

Since the failure rate is affected by other conditions what if high failure, say 100k plus miles, is localized to specific cars?

I'm just confused because if it's rare why did multiple manufacturers respond with standard changes so rapidly? (Independent research seems to start around 2012 to 2016 and VW changed by 2019)
Maybe just cautious?
 
kschachn said:
Agreed. And it isn’t just influenced by one isolated compound or element either.
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If you mean compound in the oil that's not what I got from reading a few studies. One study specifically said something like "Reducing the calcium had a significant impact on lspi". I believe they replaced it with more of that moly Mercedes stuff. Another study showed that magnesium as a replacement also helped.
 
kloogmeister said:
If you mean compound in the oil that's not what I got from reading a few studies. One study specifically said something like "Reducing the calcium had a significant impact on lspi". I believe they replaced it with more of that moly Mercedes stuff. Another study showed that magnesium as a replacement also helped.
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Yes but it is quite interdependent. As you note magnesium compounds can be a quench, as are some molybdenum compounds. ZDDP is as well. You can't just look at one isolated spectrographic element and declare that determines the overall propensity.

But past that, I agree with @TiGeo that it is an overblown concern for most engines. Engine design is highly significant.
 
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