Liqui-Moly Synthoil Premium 5-40?

[KnappAttack]

Just put this in my 05 Audi 4.2 after 140,000 miles with M1 0-40. Decided to try something different because 3/4 the way thru my 10,000 mile changes the cam chain tensioner rattle with M1 was just getting way too severe on startup. It has a hyd. cam chain tensioner on it so until oil pressure is up it clanks and rattles like mad. The oil analaysis on this engine using M1 0-40 showed great results and extremely low wear metals. Not sure if half to 3/4 the way thru the 10,000 mile changes if the M1 just gets too light to cause the check valves in the tensioner to bleed off or what, so wanted to try a somewhat thicker and/or different brand of oil. The question is will the 5-40 Liqui-Moly show as good as the 0-40 M1?

I searched and could not find much info on the Liqui-Moly here. Not new or used analaysis on this oil to be found. Napa had it so I figured I'd give it a whirl. $36 for 5 Litres so not to bad, but will it perform at 10,000 mile changes? Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

 

[dennishiip]

In the Porsche community, the use of M1 is debated. Some strongly believe it's quality is not what it used to be while many continue to use it. Almost all agree that 5k is the maximum one should go between oil changes.

 

[jonny-b]

With an oil like Liqui-Moly, you can easily go 10000 miles/1 year on the oil in a Porsche.
I would investigate what members in a German Porsche club are doing, and what kind of oil they use.
I think they know these cars quite good.
Many "foreign" clubs seem to think that a Porsche is very fragile. Almost like a Ferrari.
It ain't so.
A Porsche is made to be used, and it functions perfectly in everyday traffic.


I am not a fan of M1.

 

[dennishiip]

Regarding 5k mile recommended oil changes in water cooled Porsches. It's due to the greater heat generated by these motors that shortens the effective life of the oils. Not that these motors are less robust. Motul, Liqi-Moly, Total, and Red Line are some that seem to do better. Anecdotal? Maybe but that's the buzz. New oil formulated specifically and tested for these cars is Joe Gibbs DT 40. Let the insanity continue.

 

[Hessam]

The synthoil premium is a good oil and true synthetic compared to most US Group III's, but I wouldn't run 10K oci's with it in your audi.

it currently has the VW 502 000/505 000 approval according the Lubro Moly I believe.

 

[KnappAttack]

Why not run 10,000 miles between changes? The M1 UOA's have been fantastic in this engine. Very low wear metals and plenty of TBN left. You have experience with Liqui-Moly vs. M1?

I'll say this about the Liqui-Moly so far; my hyd. chain tensioner rattle is gone on startup, course it would be with a fresh batch of M1 too. I'll see how it does at 5000-7500 miles. It really starts getting noisy at startup with the M1 around 7500 miles, not sure because it thickens up or thins out at that point, but something changes with it about that point.

 

[Luxter]

Have you considered Motul?
For your car/engine Motul recommends as follows:
Best ............Specific 505 01 502 00 505 00 5W-40
Better ..........8100 X-clean 5W-40
Good ............8100 X-cess 5W-40
I had nothing but excellent results with X-cess and X-clean so far. And i ran M1 0w-40 in the past in my engine. Not any more.
Many Porsche owners moved to Motul as well with nothing but positive results.
In fact X-Cess is in my sump right now.
Liqui-Moly is also a good choice with proven results.
Happy motoring!
Cheers,
=L=

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Hessam
The synthoil premium is a good oil and true synthetic compared to most US Group III's, but I wouldn't run 10K oci's with it in your audi.

it currently has the VW 502 000/505 000 approval according the Lubro Moly I believe.


While the Synthoil Premium is 502.00 rated, it is still a mostly Group III oil. I think you are thinking of the Synthoil High Tech, which I could get at my local NAPA for a little while before they stopped importing it to the US. Now we get the watered down Premium version, and at $7/liter I would skip it and go with M1 0W-40.

 

[threeputtpar]

You may be experiencing a cam chain tensioner pad failure. There has been a few threads over on quattroworld that the 4.2 is having problems with the pads wearing through and the chain contacting the metal on the tensioner body. Deeper into your OCI, the HTHS viscosity may not be enough to keep the two metals apart and with new oil the noise goes away for a while.

 

[KnappAttack]

Possibly but doubtful. The UOA's have looked terrific with M1, and its done this for quite some time now. Like been doing this since 50,000 miles on the clock. Just rolled 140,000 miles. It only does this on startup when the check valves bleed off the cam chain tensioner. Car runs great and is quiet again with fresh oil. Audi says no problem will come of the noise, but if you heard it, you'd think its coming apart when it first starts. Lots of slapping and banging. You'd think you would see a bunch of wear, but Blackstone reports far lower than normal wear metals in this engine. Appears to be nothing more than bleed off on hyd cam chain tensioner. Just need to determine if oil gets too thin that allows this or too heavy. I'll play with viscosity till I get the answer, just don't want to loose the great UOA of the 0-40 M1 I've been running forever. Inside of the valve covers the engine looks like new at 140,000. Don't want to loose that switching oils to find the answer.

 

[TC]

For what it's worth, I've been using this oil for the last two 10K oil changes in a 2008 VW 2.0T, with no issues.

 

[TC]

Product data sheet (not MSDS):
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/2040_Synthoil%20Premium%205W-40.pdf/$file/2040_Synthoil%20Premium%205W-40.pdf
Or Google "LM2041 ageing miscible".

 

[vmcboss]

In my wife's GL550 we use Mobil 1 5W40 Truck oil instead of the 0W40. It seems to hold up better for her short runs around town.

In my twin turbo 911, we use Motul 8100 5W40.

Either may be applicable in your situation.

 

[TC]

Last year I bought several jugs of Lubro-Moly Synthoil Premium 5W/40, and just recently I got more curious about what it's all about (the lame product data sheet offers next to nothing other than certifications). So last week I sent e-mails to TWO Lubro-Moly U.S. reps asking for just a couple viscosity and HT/HS numbers. Never got a response. I know that other oil formulators can be helpful in providing basic oil data their tech sheets could -- and should -- offer, but don't. But not Lubro-Moly. Their customer communications policy, as far as I can tell, appears to be "P*ss Off!" I had already kinda wanted to move on to another oil, and since I had the opportunity to sell the stuff to a coworker for about what I paid for it, I unloaded it today. Think I'll buy some more Total. Not only is it a well-respected oil, they actually trust their customers with test data on WHY it's a quality oil, rather than an unhelpful "You don't need to know the numbers" approach.

 

[dparm]

Knapp, I don't know which specific 4.2 you have, but I previously owned an S4 with the 40V 4.2L version (timing chain).

Those motors can get noisy because of the timing chain tensioners. Early ones had problems with cracking or completely failing, meaning they couldn't properly adjust the tension and the chain would slap around. The part was revised in the 2005 models.

I do not recommend going out to 10k for your change interval. At 5k my oils looked fine -- as if they could do 7 or even 8k. But I wouldn't push beyond that.


I personally went with a high-VI oil whenever possible, and tried to find stuff with high ester content. My thinking was that a high VI would pump and flow quickly to the tensioners at startup (though Audi has admitted 1-2 seconds of noise at startup is fine). I also picked the ester-rich oils so that it could "coat" and "stick" to the chain more effectively. I sold it with 70k on the clock and the oil analyses and compression tests were good. No rattle at all.

 

[dparm]

BTW the Audi guys are all obsessed with that LM Synthoil Premium stuff. I really don't know why. I think it's a rip-off and a very unremarkable oil. I'd much rather run M1 0w40, Castrol Syntec 0w30, or even Lubro Moly Synthoil Energy 0w40 for the same or less money.

 

[mcallister]

Make sure you get back to us on that. Curious to see if you have that rattle at 5-7.5K. I have considered Liqu-Moly 5W-40, have a friend & his entire shop (Speedware Motorsports, Redmond, WA) that are big believers in their oil. I love Lubri-Moly Fuel additives, use them in my diesel and gas rigs. Let us know. : )

 

[KnappAttack]

Well it starting to rattle on startup again with 3200 miles on with the Liqui-Moly 5-40. No better than the the Mobil 1 0-40, in fact, its starting what seems earlier that the M1 would. M1 it starts to rattle on startup around 5000-7500 miles. I stocked back up on M1 0-40 while it was on sale at Napa last month.

Funny, but when its super hot outside it has no startup rattle. When its cooler out it seems worse. Kinda tells me it wants lighter oil to pump up the hyd tensioner quicker possibly. Seems weird though that when it has fresh oil, rattle is non existent or not bad at all. I'd had been thinking the oils been draining back past the check valves up to the tensioner and now I'm not so sure about that. I guess I'd find out more info if I tried some 15-40 or something. Things that make you go hmmmmm!

 

[skyship]

Sounds like it might be worth sending a message to Liqui Moly asking them what they would recommend. My guess is a can of Ceretec and it does work well against rattles.
A UOA at the time the rattle starts would be a good read.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: KnappAttack
Well it starting to rattle on startup again with 3200 miles on with the Liqui-Moly 5-40. No better than the the Mobil 1 0-40, in fact, its starting what seems earlier that the M1 would. M1 it starts to rattle on startup around 5000-7500 miles. I stocked back up on M1 0-40 while it was on sale at Napa last month.

Funny, but when its super hot outside it has no startup rattle. When its cooler out it seems worse. Kinda tells me it wants lighter oil to pump up the hyd tensioner quicker possibly. Seems weird though that when it has fresh oil, rattle is non existent or not bad at all. I'd had been thinking the oils been draining back past the check valves up to the tensioner and now I'm not so sure about that. I guess I'd find out more info if I tried some 15-40 or something. Things that make you go hmmmmm!


Perhaps it's not oil related? Fresh oil merely masking the real problem.