Liqui Moly MoS2 interesting sediment pics.

[TiGeo]

SuperTech is low budget oil. It's meant to sell for cheap, so it's made cheap. Someone makes it for Wally World, but I can't recall who. The manufacturer has to make a profit, Wally World has to make the most profit, and the customer gets it for what, $15? It's not hard to see how cheap oil that barely qulifies as synthetic can sludge up. Add to that the $15 or $16 you spend for each bottle of additive, and you are not making any progress. For the same money you can get Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 and for another $8 a Fram Ultra oil filter which is one of the best in the industry. Mobil 1 makes the best motor oil in my opinion, as they made synthetic oil mainstream. Just a thought. At the end of the day you should do as you wish as it is your vehicle and money to spend. I'm just giving you my two cents because I found this discussion very interesting.

A few things here:

1) Supertech is a budget oil made my Warren Oil Company which makes a number of store-brand oils (including Kirkland/Costco and Amazon Basics) and is well regarded for making quality products. Their oil is well liked on BITOG and backed by lots of UOAs/users. I use it in 2 of my vehicles.
2) Substantiate "barely qualifies as synthetic".
3) The "sludge" in the OP's pics is simply MoS2 and oil mixed and some oil is always left over after a drain. Folks getting worked up about nothing.

Glad you are happy with M1, it's a fine oil that I've used it quite a lot over the years. If you used MoS2 with M1 (name your flavor) the result would be 100% the same - some oil with a shimmery appearance from the solids in the MoS2 additive left over here and there.

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

1) Supertech is a budget oil made my Warren Oil Company which makes a number of store-brand oils (including Kirkland/Costco and Amazon Basics) and is well regarded for making quality products. Their oil is well liked on BITOG and backed by lots of UOAs/users. I use it in 2 of my vehicles.

I am not putting down anyone's oil choice, that would be juvenile. If it consistently works for you or others, that is great. Would you use it in a modified vehicle? Will SuperTech hold up under high loads / heat? Would you track a vehicle that has SuperTech in the engine?

2) Substantiate "barely qualifies as synthetic".

Maybe that one was a bit harsh, but that's because I was saving on typing. Mobil is a vertically integrated company. They can make everything that goes into their oils, down to the container it's bottled in. We should be grateful that they sell their oil for the price they do. Given their reputation, it's also an easy pick for most folks who don't want to spend time learning about motor oil and just want to pick the best and get on with their lives. It's for sure less convoluted than something like Castrol. SuperTech is a Wally World house brand. Even the company that makes it has to source materials somewhere else. Because everyone in this distribution chain has to take their cut, it stands to reason that SuperTech is manufactured with cheaper materials than Mobil 1. Since the Castrol - Mobil 1 lawsuit, lubricant producers have a lot of latitude when it comes to labeling what's synthetic. I doubt that SuperTech is has a mix of the same quality oils that go into Mobil 1. That's why I called it barely synthetic.

3) The "sludge" in the OP's pics is simply MoS2 and oil mixed and some oil is always left over after a drain. Folks getting worked up about nothing.

I don't use oil additives because the results are unpredictable. Additives can change how the motor oil works and usually not in a good way. When you add a substantial quantity of additive to a vehicle, lets say 16 oz. to a 6 quart sump, you displace the other additives by about 9%~10%. As far as a know oil blenders use various technologies to bond the additive packages to their respective base oils. When you add an additive to an oil, it's like giving the middle finger to the oil manufacturer, saying that you know better. And the additive will not work in conjunction with the package in your motor oil, it will be more like the odd person in a group of friends: he's there just because they can't get rid of him, and because he can't really go anywhere else at the moment.

I read this entire thread and someone said that it's possible to get sludge at 20,000 miles. I believe it, especially if the engine is running hot and the oil is not of good quality. Hence my comment about sludge.

 

[kschachn]

FYI there was no " Castrol - Mobil 1 lawsuit", blenders and formulators have always had latitude in the definition. I see you're wanting us to believe you have some sort of insider information, if that's true then you should know this. Had it actually progressed to a lawsuit then ExxonMobil knew they would lose. Do you know why?

So you've been around here before, right? Should this be a "welcome back"?

 

[TiGeo]

I am not putting down anyone's oil choice, that would be juvenile. If it consistently works for you or others, that is great. Would you use it in a modified vehicle? Will SuperTech hold up under high loads / heat? Would you track a vehicle that has SuperTech in the engine?


Maybe that one was a bit harsh, but that's because I was saving on typing. Mobil is a vertically integrated company. They can make everything that goes into their oils, down to the container it's bottled in. We should be grateful that they sell their oil for the price they do. Given their reputation, it's also an easy pick for most folks who don't want to spend time learning about motor oil and just want to pick the best and get on with their lives. It's for sure less convoluted than something like Castrol. SuperTech is a Wally World house brand. Even the company that makes it has to source materials somewhere else. Because everyone in this distribution chain has to take their cut, it stands to reason that SuperTech is manufactured with cheaper materials than Mobil 1. Since the Castrol - Mobil 1 lawsuit, lubricant producers have a lot of latitude when it comes to labeling what's synthetic. I doubt that SuperTech is has a mix of the same quality oils that go into Mobil 1. That's why I called it barely synthetic.


I don't use oil additives because the results are unpredictable. Additives can change how the motor oil works and usually not in a good way. When you add a substantial quantity of additive to a vehicle, lets say 16 oz. to a 6 quart sump, you displace the other additives by about 9%~10%. As far as a know oil blenders use various technologies to bond the additive packages to their respective base oils. When you add an additive to an oil, it's like giving the middle finger to the oil manufacturer, saying that you know better. And the additive will not work in conjunction with the package in your motor oil, it will be more like the odd person in a group of friends: he's there just because they can't get rid of him, and because he can't really go anywhere else at the moment.

I read this entire thread and someone said that it's possible to get sludge at 20,000 miles. I believe it, especially if the engine is running hot and the oil is not of good quality. Hence my comment about sludge.

I have a modified vehicle that I beat on/track etc. - my Sportwagen. No, I don't use Supertech in it. I use what's in my signature. For a higher-mileage/low value/daily driven vehicle for a teenager that gets 5K or less a year? Supertech works perfect and saves some money that my boys pay for their oil changes.

I am not saying ST is higher quality than M1 - but nobody will show that there is any meaningful difference in vehicle longevity in a vehicle as I described above based on what oil is chosen as long as it meets the manufacturer's specs/approvals.

As to the additive discussion - I'll take my chances with a known quantity like MoS2 or Ceratec in my high-performance application.

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

FYI there was no " Castrol - Mobil 1 lawsuit", blenders and formulators have always had latitude in the definition. I see you're wanting us to believe you have some sort of insider information, if that's true then you should know this. Had it actually progressed to a lawsuit then ExxonMobil knew they would lose. Do you know why?

It's something that's talked about here and there, and I picked it up, but I never looked much into it. It's something people bring up every now and then in synthetic oil discussions. If you have more info then please share it. No, I have no clue why Mobil would lose.

So you've been around here before, right? Should this be a "welcome back"?

Long time lurker.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I think my Honda VTEC got hurt from running this stuff and I had to trade it. I used a 1/2 bottle and that was too much. Later I've used the remaining LiquiMoly additive (about 1/2oz. in my Generac GP5000 with
Valvoline Racing Synthetic 10W30 and that combo was great; splash lubed and NO oil filter in sight.

 

[TiGeo]

I think my Honda VTEC got hurt from running this stuff and I had to trade it. I used a 1/2 bottle and that was too much. Later I've used the remaining LiquiMoly additive (about 1/2oz. in my Generac GP5000 with
Valvoline Racing Synthetic 10W30 and that combo was great; splash lubed and NO oil filter in sight.

So the VTEC didn't kick in? hahahahahah

 

[adams355]

I only use oil with no approvals and its way better than Mobil 1 in modified cars. They even make the tins as well...

 

[Trav]

FYI there was no " Castrol - Mobil 1 lawsuit", blenders and formulators have always had latitude in the definition. I see you're wanting us to believe you have some sort of insider information, if that's true then you should know this. Had it actually progressed to a lawsuit then ExxonMobil knew they would lose. Do you know why?

So you've been around here before, right? Should this be a "welcome back"?

In Germany there was an actual lawsuit not just a consumer thing. I don't remember the exact details it was a very long time ago but I am sure I kept it somewhere.
https://www.bizol.com/company/education/lubricant-knowledge-base/synthetic-oil/

 

[Trav]

I think my Honda VTEC got hurt from running this stuff and I had to trade it. I used a 1/2 bottle and that was too much. Later I've used the remaining LiquiMoly additive (about 1/2oz. in my Generac GP5000 with
Valvoline Racing Synthetic 10W30 and that combo was great; splash lubed and NO oil filter in sight.

Those systems are very sensitive to deposits of any kind. There have been reports (some on this board) of solids clogging lifters/lash adjusters and VCM systems also.
Good safe advice is to keep solids of any sort out of engine oil especially modern high tech ones, period.
It did benefit old engines that used mechanical lifters and no oil pressure/flow engine management systems, in those days the engine oil was not very good and it did help lower normal engine operating noises but those days are long gone.

 

[PimTac]

I am not putting down anyone's oil choice, that would be juvenile. If it consistently works for you or others, that is great. Would you use it in a modified vehicle? Will SuperTech hold up under high loads / heat? Would you track a vehicle that has SuperTech in the engine?

It would be better to use something like Mag 1 oil which would hold up better I guess?

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

It would be better to use something like Mag 1 oil which would hold up better I guess?

https://mag1.com/ - this?

I never used or heard of their products.

 

[OVERKILL]

I only use oil with no approvals and its way better than Mobil 1 in modified cars. They even make the tins as well...

View attachment 65058

Of course, Mobil makes racing oils as well:
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/motor-oils/racing-oils

Their FS 0w-40 is the oil used in the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup circuit, as well as numerous other racing venues like the 24hrs of Daytona.

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

Isn't racing oil somewhat different than street oil?

 

[adams355]

Of course, Mobil makes racing oils as well:
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/motor-oils/racing-oils

Their FS 0w-40 is the oil used in the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup circuit, as well as numerous other racing venues like the 24hrs of Daytona.

Yea but no PAO/AN blends. Nulon racing oil has gone up against the best and not been found wanting.

Isn't racing oil somewhat different than street oil?

Depends on the car, cat convertors, tuned, HP over stock, track use etc.

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

Depends on the car, cat convertors, tuned, HP over stock, track use etc.

The EPA is saying something along the lines of "regular vehicles cannot be converted into race vehicles." This is a more recent development, and there are plenty of YT videos about it. My point is that while you can use racing oil in a street car, I wonder how well a race car fares on street oil.

Also, engine oil and racing - it's always been the marketing department's dream sales tactic. The catch is that what may be good on a race track, might not be good for street use. This applies the other way around as well. So I don't know. Mobil 1 is cheap, readily available, and is backed by a strong company. That's all I need to know.

 

[930.engineering]

Circuit racing and factory approvals don't need to be necessarily conflicting:

https://www.ravenol.de/en/motorsport/technik/

Actually REP, RUP, RSP and SSL do come with BMW, VW, Porsche and MB approvals.

 

[adams355]

The EPA is saying something along the lines of "regular vehicles cannot be converted into race vehicles." This is a more recent development, and there are plenty of YT videos about it. My point is that while you can use racing oil in a street car, I wonder how well a race car fares on street oil.

Also, engine oil and racing - it's always been the marketing department's dream sales tactic. The catch is that what may be good on a race track, might not be good for street use. This applies the other way around as well. So I don't know. Mobil 1 is cheap, readily available, and is backed by a strong company. That's all I need to know.

It just comes down to approvals, most racing oil is far better than street oil if your car can use it. Years ago it use to be race oil doesn't have a great TBN etc, but now with group 4/5 base oils there is a lot of life in good racing oils. In Australia we hardly ever get tested by our 'EPA' but if we do and we fail, we just run an e85 tune which will pass no matter what mods (engine wise etc) we have.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yea but no PAO/AN blends. Nulon racing oil has gone up against the best and not been found wanting.

Depends on the car, cat convertors, tuned, HP over stock, track use etc.

We don't know how much AN or POE content are in the oils, but considering Mobil is one of the world's leading suppliers of these base oils, It would be naive to assume they don't use them where necessary. Mobil does typically call out PAO on the MSDS however, which can give us a rough idea of how much of it is in the product.
- The 15w-50, which is also a street oil, shows as being 5-10%, so it's probably mostly Group III, but that's just a guess.
- The 0w-30 shows 70-80% PAO:

- the 0w-50 shows 60-70% PAO:

So I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that Mobil's race oils aren't PAO-based? I would also assume they contain Esters and AN's. It's likely that Nulon buys their components from Mobil or Chevron.

 

[Obi Wan Noobi]

- The 0w-30 shows 70-80% PAO:

Can this oil be used in a street vehicle? It looks very appealing for a small 4 banger turbo.