Liqui moly ceratec

[Trav]

MoS2 in the oil pan and Ceratec in the compressor.

 

[demarpaint]

I thought that was LM MoS2. Not ceratec.

They make both, and both fall out of suspension in vehicles that aren't driven every day.

 

[TiGeo]

The Ceratec is a 2-part additive so the solid portion goes away after your first change and the chemical portion is supposed to last for 30K miles.

 

[TiGeo]

And as is always the case with these additives, there are standardized tests that would prove efficacy (same as the ones that the blenders use for motor oils), yet such tests are rarely if ever documented. Why is that? Instead, if anything we get a page of worthless testimonials and vague "up to" claims that upon scrutiny mean nothing. Surely the additive companies have run such tests prior to marketing, right?

I don't disagree with you; kind of like vitamins/supplements etc.

 

[Kamele0N]

Can I mix that with liqui moly 2020 motor oil saver?
Was thinking about using those two together on my next oil change. 05 VW Passat 2.0 TDI

Well...will there be any free space for engine oil in your engine....or will you drive your car on LM additives alone?

 

[Tomat]

Can I mix that with liqui moly 2020 motor oil saver?
Was thinking about using those two together on my next oil change. 05 VW Passat 2.0 TDI

You can used it do not go 10% additive ratio it better to used both in different oil change unless you big oil leak.

 

[ruSSrt]

Well...will there be any free space for engine oil in your engine....or will you drive your car on LM additives alone?

We'll.... If oil additives make oil better. Than if I just use additives with no oil I get top of the line lubrication, right?

 

[kschachn]

We'll.... If oil additives make oil better. Than if I just use additives with no oil I get top of the line lubrication, right?

One way to tell, what VW approvals does the additive have?

 

[MolaKule]

See my comment here in post #104:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ceratec-and-mos2-discussion.318967/page-6#post-5601630

 

[edhackett]

Looking at the UOA, Al was 100% more per mile and Fe was 33% more per mile with Ceratec than without. That Ceretec is good stuff.

Ed

 

[TiGeo]

Looking at the UOA, Al was 100% more per mile and Fe was 33% more per mile with Ceratec than without. That Ceretec is good stuff.

Ed

Are you referring to my UOA above? The reason for the increased wear metals at the 29K change/9K OCI are the newish turbo I put on at 20K which explains it well. No other reason for an increase in wear metals and certainly not related to the Ceratec. Based on that logic, I could say the drop in metals at ~36K is b/c I used MoS2 which it is not, just equilibrating after the new turbo broke in.

 

[Arrechera]

Good morning, I write from Spain.
A few weeks ago I had the Liqui Moly Ceratec analyzed and here I leave the results.
Apparently currently (I do not know in the past) it does not use MOS2 but organic molybdenum.

Everything indicates that the base used, depending on the spectroscopy and the flash and freezing points, is HC base

 

[3800Series]

I used it, wanted to try it for a few years. While I can't directly say it was the product shortly after adding it my motor was noticeably louder, not slightly very noticeable. This vehicle has low miles, wasn't even audible inside or out while running it was virtually silent even while driving in the city. Car developed a lifter tick sound during that oil change which remained for about 3 maybe 4 oil changes than went away and never came back.

I mentioned it last year (around this time) but yeah, that was my experience borderline knocking levels of noise while driving and easily noticeable noise at idle but its back to normal now.

 

[Jetronic]

that could very well be... if the knocking sound some cars make is from metal hitting metal and the absence means there's a layer of oilpreventing hard contact. If you put solids in your oilther could be metal - solids - metal contact... hammer hits dowel hits gudgeon pin type thing...

 

[OVERKILL]

I wouldn't trust anything that only has testimonials and no empirical evidence, and that tends to be the case with many of these additives. And no they might not necessarily go out of business, because there are plenty of products that sell will without being effective (snake oils, health supplements). If they are not harmful, that would be the sweet spot for these companies because the placebo effect will make it so that the customer will think it's working, and since it's not damaging anything they will think that there is no reason to stop using it if they think they are receiving benefit.

That being said, there is a channel on youtube, Project Farm, showing Lucas oil additive mixed with Amazon basics oil and Amazon basics without oil, and the film strength improved significantly with Lucas.

The results of rat540's blog shows that thicker oil doesn't improve film strength.

He also tested LM MOS2 and LM Ceratec, and found MOS2 to be ineffective and Ceratec to be slightly effective in his tests. These results may or may not translate directly real world engine performance, however, which he does state.

Bacon grease ended up having higher film strength than many engine oils, so perhaps max film strength probably isn't the only thing important for engines.

The RAT tests and these "film testing" rigs are wholly irrelevant to what goes on inside an engine, that's why the proper sequence for EP testing isn't used on engine oils, only gear oils and greases.

It's like judging what's the better gun by how well it works as a hammer.

 

[kschachn]

I wondered how long it was going to take before that worthless “test” was going to pop up its ugly head.

 

[demarpaint]

I wondered how long it was going to take before that worthless “test” was going to pop up its ugly head.

I was wondering about that myself.

 

[kschachn]

Both mos2 and ceratec take a number of hours to actually plate to metal.
This might explain PF's findings.
They did not allow time to plate before their tests.

That's not the problem.

 

[silversapphire]

@OVERKILL @kschachn @demarpaint

I figure that RAT and other one off film strength testers don't fully simulate real engine conditions, but it's the only point of lubricity I know to compare them by. I do wish that RAT would publish his methodology, but RAT refuses for some reason. Wouldn't a more accurate analogy be judging which is the better gun by using a round that the gun wasn't designed for, or finding out which gun is more accurate by measuring muzzle energy, or some other indirect metric. Higher muzzle energy implies a higher velocity which can correlate with high accuracy at long distances, for example. Not saying it's a good measure, but what else do we have to compare these additives and oils (other than UOAs, but those results can be mixed with engine variance).

@Nickmaio Liqui-Moly advertises Ceratec as having immediate effect, so that isn't likely to be the issue. Or if it is, Liqui-Moly should change their advertising.

 

[TiGeo]

@OVERKILL @kschachn @demarpaint

I figure that RAT and other one off film strength testers don't fully simulate real engine conditions, but it's the only point of lubricity I know to compare them by. I do wish that RAT would publish his methodology, but RAT refuses for some reason. Wouldn't a more accurate analogy be judging which is the better gun by using a round that the gun wasn't designed for, or finding out which gun is more accurate by measuring muzzle energy, or some other indirect metric. Higher muzzle energy implies a higher velocity which can correlate with high accuracy at long distances, for example. Not saying it's a good measure, but what else do we have to compare these additives and oils (other than UOAs, but those results can be mixed with engine variance).

@Nickmaio Liqui-Moly advertises Ceratec as having immediate effect, so that isn't likely to be the issue. Or if it is, Liqui-Moly should change their advertising.

LM's Ceratec is explained by them as having 1) a solid friction modifier (like their MoS2 product) that should work immediately and only lasts for the single oil change and 2) a chemical friction modifier that takes some time to adhere/whatever sorcery it does and lasts up to 30K miles.