Life Insurance and Pipe Smoking

[andrewg]

Question. I have a term life insurance policy. My rate is very low (excellent health for my age). I obtained this policy about two years ago. Just before I got the insurance I used to smoke an occasional tobacco pipe (five bowls a week). I had ceased partaking shortly before getting the policy and had stated on the policy that I did not smoke (true). I went through an exam and even had blood taken to qualify for my policy as well. My question is....I am missing an occasional pipe of tobacco and desire to start again. I am not addicted to it and never have been as I smoke the low nicotine types of blends and as any pipe smoker knows....you don't inhale into your lungs and also in most cases it is not addictive. Anyway, do I need to tell my insurance people that I am now going to be an occasional pipe smoker? Will it raise my rates? If I don't tell them and then lets say that I die for any reason, do they do a blood test to determine if I was smoking...and thereby deny benefits to my beneficiary? I don't like the idea of not being 100% honest. I'm sure that my very limited amount of low-impact pipe smoking would have a very low effect on my health (if any), so I almost feel like it's not worth mentioning.
Any insurance people out there that can advise me the best course? And to you anti-smoking people out there please refrain from posting any lectures as I'm well aware of the risks to my health and accept them if I decide to move forward.

 

[The_Jeff]

They could decide to "randomly" not pay and force your next of kin to hire many expensive attorneys to prove they were wrong. The burden of proof would effectively be upon them.

It's like when a car company denies warranty because you used fram filters in your own driveway. It's not supposed to happen, but there are horror stories, and they get away with it enough that the profit is worthwhile.

 

[Pablo]

Last policy I read did not discriminate on tobacco type. It just said "tabacco use", so yes you should tell them. It's fraud if you don't.

 

[rjundi]

I believe the rate is set at the time of acquiring insurance for policy term based on their calculation of answers, medical history and a swab or blood test.

For example if you have terminal cancer you are not required to let them know. Once you lapse they pay.

 

[wkcars]

I think it just depends on the company you have so I think you need to read the terms of your policy. Some insurance make you do tests/take questionaire when you renew so they could change your rates then, but some make you do tests/take questionaire periodically and change your rates if something changes including your age, while some policies cover you and continue to cover you based on the initial tests and never ask you to test/questionaire again and keep renewing you up to a certain age...so it just depends on the company and the policy terms.

 

[bluestream]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
I believe the rate is set at the time of acquiring insurance for policy term based on their calculation of answers, medical history and a swab or blood test.

For example if you have terminal cancer you are not required to let them know. Once you lapse they pay.


This is correct. I sold life insurance for many years. At the time of underwriting, you were likely asked if you had smoked any tobacco products in the past year. If you had one cigarette, or one cigar on the golf course, that would make you a smoker and you would get smokers rates. After the policy is issued and delivered, you are free to smoke, do drugs, race cars, dive with sharks, and you are under no obligation to report these activities. (some group insurance policies you are required) Now if you lied on the initial application, and actually were a smoker, that is fraud if you did it intentionally they can cancel that policy at any time, or not pay out on your death (if they find out it was fraud). If you just forgot, or it slipped your mind that you had a smoke, the insurance company has two years (period of incontestability) to find out and they could cancel the policy, or raise your rates to smoker.

I have seen cases where people not knowing they were under no obligation to report a change in smoker status have called in and told the ins company they are now smokers, and the insurance company raised there rates...

 

[carwreck]

See Aetna risk plans. http://www.individualhealthinsuranceconnecticut.com/PDFs/Aetna Underwriting Guidlines 2010.pdf

Smoking is assessed in combination with your BMI (body mass/weight) and any other existing conditions. Rate increase could be 10-60% depending on your weight.

There is no way that they need to know about your change (my opinion).
Just like if you gain 20 pounds, no one is going to notify your insurance provider that you just gained weight.

Same as with car insurance. Does anyone call their car insurance company to tell them "I got a speeding ticket, please raise my rate".
__________________________________________________

1999 Olds GLS

 

[MNgopher]

After you obtain the policy, you are pretty much free to do what you want, unless the company requires an annual (or other frequency) update.

However, as was pointed out, how soon before obtaining the policy did you stop? The last policy I obtained coverage under wanted to know if I had smoked (and that means any kind of tobacco, including a pipe) at all in the last year. Any wrong answer to that question is fraud and the insurer could deny coverage at any time, including not making a payout. Just curious what you meant by "shortly before" and whether you read all the fine print as to what that meant?

 

[bluestream]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
The last policy I obtained coverage under wanted to know if I had smoked (and that means any kind of tobacco, including a pipe) at all in the last year. Any wrong answer to that question is fraud and the insurer could deny coverage at any time, including not making a payout.


That depends on his intent, and whether he just plain forgot about it. Example: if I had skin cancer at age 4 and was curred, 50 year later I apply fir life insurance and answer "no" to the cancer question(s), having completely forgot about the age 4 event. That is not fraud and there was no intent to deceive. However, the insurance company has two years to discover the incident, after that they are SOL...And I if were to remember it after a period of time am under no obligation to report it. These laws are going to vary a bit between jurisdictions I am sure...

 

[MNgopher]

You are correct Bluestream - intent does matter, but I think in this case its pretty clear what the intentions were. Either way, long story short is that trying to save a few bucks up front is probably not the best move - the insurance company would really rather prefer to not make a payout since their motives are generally for profit or for shareholders (and I don't say that in a negative way - the goal is to balance payouts / profits )

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
as any pipe smoker knows....you don't inhale into your lungs and also in most cases it is not addictive.


But you pull the chemical laden smoke into your mouth and nose, and have a significantly elevated risk of mouth, tongue and lip cancer. Not to mention the stench by which all smokers are surrounded, and the second hand smoke to which the families are subjected.

You've wised up and given it up for a fairly long period of time-why would you possibly want to once again pick up such a filthy habit?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: andrewg
as any pipe smoker knows....you don't inhale into your lungs and also in most cases it is not addictive.


But you pull the chemical laden smoke into your mouth and nose, and have a significantly elevated risk of mouth, tongue and lip cancer. Not to mention the stench by which all smokers are surrounded, and the second hand smoke to which the families are subjected.

You've wised up and given it up for a fairly long period of time-why would you possibly want to once again pick up such a filthy habit?

I knew at least one person would not consider nor regard my request with respect. Obviously you'd rather insult than be kind or considerate of my request NOT to get a lecture. You use silly and inflated words such as "stench" and "filthy" to attempt to marginalize . Pipe smoke, especially aromatics, has generally been described as very pleasant by smokers and non-smokers alike...it's called the 'room note'. And as for my general hygiene? Always been told I'm a clean-cut, well groomed individual with no visible nor odoriferous signs that would lend one to call me "filthy"....lol. But people like you would rather get all worked up over it and make grand statements. Oh well.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Last policy I read did not discriminate on tobacco type. It just said "tabacco use", so yes you should tell them. It's fraud if you don't.

I was asked....and at that time I did not use ANY tobacco. I recall even telling the agent that in the past I have smoked a tobacco pipe a couple of times a week. He shrugged and said that wasn't an issue. I don't see how it's fraud if I occasionally do the same as when I applied for the policy. But you could be right, as I'm not certain 100%. I suppose my main concern is if I die, will they want a copy of an autopsy (if done) or request blood to see if any tobacco is present. I know it sounds a bit weird perhaps, but I just want to be assured that my benefits will be paid out.

 

[Pablo]

I guess you should get your full policy and read it word for word. Boring I know....and no one typically has the time. As a side note, my first business insurance policy was hundreds of pages....man I didn't have time to read it when I first paid the premium....sometime later I read the whole thing. I was amazed both ways - stuff it covered and stuff it didn't.

 

[crinkles]

Nothing good can come from tobacco.

In my view, if you say you don't smoke, and are insured as such, and then take up smoking, you are being unethical unless you update your rate for being a smoker of whatever kind. Doesn't matter if the contract says it is ok to take up smoking after you start your policy or if the policy is silent on that aspect. i am sure they would object to paying out a claim if you were smoking or developed smoking related illness.

Just my view , welcome to take it or leave it, you sound like you know what you are going to do already.

 

[Shannow]

The fact that the question is being asked tells me that the question is being asked of what the legalities/contractual position versus the moralities are.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
Nothing good can come from tobacco.

In my view, if you say you don't smoke, and are insured as such, and then take up smoking, you are being unethical unless you update your rate for being a smoker of whatever kind. Doesn't matter if the contract says it is ok to take up smoking after you start your policy or if the policy is silent on that aspect. i am sure they would object to paying out a claim if you were smoking or developed smoking related illness.

Just my view , welcome to take it or leave it, you sound like you know what you are going to do already.

I am a highly ethical person. When I applied for the policy I was honest with the agent when asked about tobacco use. What it seemed he was getting at when asking me my use of tobacco was if I was a 'smoker'. In other words did I smoke daily. My answer was no....and still is. I had told him about my occasional pipe smoking previously and he said it was not an issue. Sort of like a person that lights up a cigar on special occasions....no issue. My concern is IF I was to die for an unrelated cause (like a car wreck or something) and if they could decide to deny the payout of my policy to the beneficiary because they see nicotine in a blood report.
And no, I have not decided already that I am going to light up my pipe a few times a week.....but some people on here act as thought I'm a child molester or something at the mere mention of it. Strange the way the attitudes have changed in this country from what they used to be. I could say I was taking up base jumping and everybody would applaud at how 'cool' it was. Yet in my opinion that is mindless suicide and easily grounds to void an insurance policy as the chances of dying are FAR greater than smoking a simple pipe a few times a week. Bunch of sheep, people are.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I guess you should get your full policy and read it word for word. Boring I know....and no one typically has the time. As a side note, my first business insurance policy was hundreds of pages....man I didn't have time to read it when I first paid the premium....sometime later I read the whole thing. I was amazed both ways - stuff it covered and stuff it didn't.

I've read it a couple of times and could not really find a direct answer....that's what concerns me. I'll read it one more time. If I think the insurance company would in any way deny a payout for the detection of a minor amount of nicotine in my blood....then I will not even think about lighting up. The most important thing here is that my benefits go to the person I want them to.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The fact that the question is being asked tells me that the question is being asked of what the legalities/contractual position versus the moralities are.

Actually I see no correlation toward one morality. Perhaps ethics COULD be applied here as part of the issue...yet as I've said I did not lie when applying for the policy nor do I intend or consider it lying if I smoke an occasional pipe. I just want to know if I can be denied benefits from a small amount of nicotine in my blood if my policy states I am a non-smoker.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
Nothing good can come from tobacco.

Studies in Europe show an occasional cigarette can stave off Alzheimer's. This isn't something that cigarette tax-crazed America would broadcast to the people.