Let's talk BMW's

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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
At the prices of a 10 year old 3 series, I'd snap one up in a second if I thought I could maintain it for somewhere close to the costs of a japanese or american car. But odds are that it will be a very costly luxury over driving a 10 year old Neon or an Accord.


Based on my above-mentioned experience with a 17 year old 3er I bitterly regret not buying a Neon or Accord back in 1995...
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Originally Posted By: nleksan

You all are here to learn about oils, yet half the people here seem to preach "the car manufacturers are always right, they have a direct line to the car.gods", and the rest get wet dreams over the entirely-vanilla and unspecial M1 0w40.
This isn't coming from some stupid kid, either, it is coming from a biochemical engineer who has modified many BMWs to varying degrees, with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles and never have I ever experienced a single engine problem.


Listen, I agree with MOST of what you said, but Mobil 1 0w40 is hardly "vanilla". It is their flagship product used in various racing bodies all over the world.

I've got hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt too, almost all of them in modified Ford Windsors running Mobil 1. You've seen the pictures, the engines are CLEAN.

Also, on tear-down, the bores looked like new (visible cross hatching), the cam looked like new, lifters....etc.

And my oil choice isn't coming from BMW, but rather based on what I've learned in my tenure here, as well as numerous discussion with Doug Hillary, who has several million miles of actual lubricant testing, analysis and tear-down testing under his belt.
 
Quote:
If you buy a BMW thinking it is no different from a Toyota, I am sorry, but you are just naive, stupid, or a spoiled rich kid.

Well if people started thinking about these cars as just cars and not tin gods they would be easier to live with.
Millions of Germans drive these cars every day just like Americans drive Chevy's and Fords.

They use Castrol, Mobil, Shell etc and service them like any other car. I never found them difficult to work on or anything all that special. Having owned a lot of these cars over the years i think they are very good cars that are easy enough to own and live with.
I think most Americans kill them with kindness, treating them like fine china but that's just my opinion.
The Polizei drive these things 24/7 and beat them like a red headed step child, yet its not uncommon to find them still on the job at 10 yrs old.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
And my oil choice isn't coming from BMW, but rather based on what I've learned in my tenure here, as well as numerous discussion with Doug Hillary, who has several million miles of actual lubricant testing, analysis and tear-down testing under his belt.


I run Mobil 1 as well and UOAs have indicated that an 8,000 to 8,500 mile OCI is fine for both my ti and X3. In fact, here are Blackstone's comments about the latest UOA of the M1 0W-40 that I ran for 8,240 miles in my ti:

Our universal averages show normal wear for the M42 4-cylinder after 3,800 miles of oil use. You ran this 0W/40 oil well past that mark, so it was nice to see all metals reading close to or below average. They were also in balance to one another and that shows normally wearing parts and no mechanical problems brewing. The oil's TBN was 5.7
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

They use Castrol, Mobil, Shell etc and service them like any other car. I never found them difficult to work on or anything all that special. Having owned a lot of these cars over the years i think they are very good cars that are easy enough to own and live with.
I think most Americans kill them with kindness, treating them like fine china but that's just my opinion.
The Polizei drive these things 24/7 and beat them like a red headed step child, yet its not uncommon to find them still on the job at 10 yrs old.


Agreed. Maintenance is the key- and "babying" a BMW does more harm than good my ti sees the redline almost every time I drive it and it has proven to be completely reliable.
 
I love my E46 coupe with the performance package...it's fine balance between sporty handling/performance and being a daily driver, with very decent gas mileage (i get about 26-27 mixed city/hwy). ...it's a joy to drive, and plenty quick for my needs...

Some say the ZHP coupe is perhaps the best 3 coupe ever made...not as complex as an M, but also not as simple as the regular 330....

I like the E9x 3 series less...

I know they may not be most reliable car, but not worst either...I only have 30k on mine and I know the weak points to look out for ...like with any car we own.

Most people who auto-hate BMWs (having never owned one), are just echoing others' thoughts...I think.
 
Quote:
Most people who auto-hate BMWs (having never owned one), are just echoing others' thoughts...I think.

I think your probably right!
 
Originally Posted By: 97tbird

Some say the ZHP coupe is perhaps the best 3 coupe ever made...not as complex as an M, but also not as simple as the regular 330....


Exactly; better performance than a US E36 M3 with a nicer interior and the M Spoert aerodynamic kit.

Originally Posted By: 97tbird

Most people who auto-hate BMWs (having never owned one), are just echoing others' thoughts...I think.



Funny isn't it? As I put it in another forum:

"I have a Jeep TJ yet I never post snotty comments on the Hummer or Land Rover forums. My TJ does what I want it to do so there's no need to justify my choice. Ditto for my Mazdaspeed3; I leave the guys in the GTI, MCS, Si, and WRX forums to their own devices. Again, my car suits me, so why bother owners of other cars? And as for my X3 and 3er, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to troll the Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, or MB boards. What's the point? And the same goes for my Speed Triple and the H-D, Ducati, and other bike forums. That said, there always seems to be a few non-BMW owners who just have to yell "Mine's bigger!" in the BMW topics"
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
...
I think most Americans kill them with kindness, treating them like fine china but that's just my opinion.
The Polizei drive these things 24/7 and beat them like a red headed step child, yet its not uncommon to find them still on the job at 10 yrs old.


Which Americans are these?

Seriously. The overwhelming majority of BMWs I see on a day to day basis are significantly screwed up and the major defect is the loose nut behind the steering wheel.

I honestly think I would enjoy owning a BMW and could easily overlook some of the minor faults I've pointed out in previous threads just because everything else is so well designed. But I personally have a difficult time plunking down more than 1/3rd of my annual salary on a car. That limits me to the most basic new 128i or a used BMW.

But then I see these cars coming in that are so badly neglected. It has a LONG maintenance interval. Like 15K mi on BMW synthetic, and these people are thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of miles past due. Not just a few either. The majority have CELs glowing and significant other problems.

Makes you wonder what happened to this car before you got it.
 
Well, my W126 Series MB 420SEL's have an average just about 200K miles on 'em...

The '91 is on the 1st top end and tranny.

The '88 I. had a top end and tranny rebuild done just before I bought it (4K miles ago) and has the least miles. The neighbor's 1st wife kept trying to start it with the dreaded timing chain "rattle" and necessitated rebuilding the heads. Ran the tranny low on fluid, as well.

The running parts car '88 II. needs a tranny refreshing for the freeway (won't shift into 4th), but the motor passed DEQ last year and the very expen$ive idle control valve, cold start valve, etc. all look new!

Never owned a BMW nor an Audi (or a Porche, either!) but my experience with Mercedes S-Class cars (pre-1992!) has been nothing but a dream: one can still do most of the normal preventive maintenance items without being a "certified so-and-so of some sort (read that as "factory trained") and reputable Independents can fix just about everything else as almost all parts are readily available.

Some items (like the $2995 SRS Controller = airbag "black box") are better found used, but you can still find them!

As far as the S-Class MB's are concerned you can truly state "They just don't build 'em like they used to!"

Cheers!

p.s. Hope the SC400 lives up to its reputation!
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Trav
...
I think most Americans kill them with kindness, treating them like fine china but that's just my opinion.
The Polizei drive these things 24/7 and beat them like a red headed step child, yet its not uncommon to find them still on the job at 10 yrs old.


Which Americans are these?

Seriously. The overwhelming majority of BMWs I see on a day to day basis are significantly screwed up and the major defect is the loose nut behind the steering wheel.

The point is how they get screwed up. Maintenance neglect, as you pointed out, is one way. What Trav is saying, and what I suspect as well, is that mild driving (i.e. how almost all Americans drive) doesn't do them any favors either. They are designed to spend long hours flat-out on unrestricted sections of highway, not to dawdle around such that the tach never crosses 3k.


Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I personally have a difficult time plunking down more than 1/3rd of my annual salary on a car. That limits me to the most basic new 128i or a used BMW.

The 128i is a great car. I wouldn't want any other modern BMW unless I had to carry passengers all the time.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: nleksan

You all are here to learn about oils, yet half the people here seem to preach "the car manufacturers are always right, they have a direct line to the car.gods", and the rest get wet dreams over the entirely-vanilla and unspecial M1 0w40.
This isn't coming from some stupid kid, either, it is coming from a biochemical engineer who has modified many BMWs to varying degrees, with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles and never have I ever experienced a single engine problem.


Listen, I agree with MOST of what you said, but Mobil 1 0w40 is hardly "vanilla". It is their flagship product used in various racing bodies all over the world.

I've got hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt too, almost all of them in modified Ford Windsors running Mobil 1. You've seen the pictures, the engines are CLEAN.

Also, on tear-down, the bores looked like new (visible cross hatching), the cam looked like new, lifters....etc.

And my oil choice isn't coming from BMW, but rather based on what I've learned in my tenure here, as well as numerous discussion with Doug Hillary, who has several million miles of actual lubricant testing, analysis and tear-down testing under his belt.


Fair enough, I respect your opinion regarding Mobil1, I simply have had different experiences. Perhaps I myself have fallen victim to the "auto-hate" for the oil, to a degree, because although I have never found it to perform ANY better than any other "off the shelf" oils, I also disagree with it being the "Poster Boy for the Finest Oil! Ever!" that it seems to be, while an oil like Royal Purple has become something of a Pariah! I have seen the pics of your engines, and honestly, I would buy a used car from you without even having to see it in person! That is because I know you are a true enthusiast, and as such, you love your cars, take incredible care of them, yet still drive them how they are meant to be driven. Seriously, when you sell your M5, give me a ring
wink.gif



I agree also that the 330i/Ci ZHP is one of the finest BMW's ever made. I am actually SERIOUSLY considering buying a 2006 330Ci ZHP (Imola Red over Alcantara) with the 6spd Manual, Performance Package (ZHP), Harmon Kardon audio, Premium Package, Bi-Xenons, and the very-rare sunroof delete. Only 28k miles, oil changed every 4k or 6 months with Redline 0w30/40, Redline in the tranny and diff, Motul in the brake lines, and about $8k in modifications (intake/headers/exhaust/tune, Ground Control D/A Coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, Powerflex bushings, Kinesis 19x8.5f 19x10r wheels, Pioneer AVIC headunit, BSW Stg1 speaker upgrade, and a few other things such as M3 mirrors, OEM Carbon Fiber MTech2 splitters, Projector Fogs w 3300K Xenon conversion, UUC SSK, etc). As it's a friend, he is giving me 6 months to decide (storage for winter), and I get it for $19k!! (It would easily sell for $26-30k+) I would have to get rid of the 325 or the 740 though... but I LOVE the ZHP's.

Man, I really want an M3 though... E46, 2006 in Alpine White over Imola Red Leather with a six-speed manual, no sunroof, Competition Package, and a few other "goodies"...
 
That's a great price for a ZHP w/ all those mods...I'd grab it.

Mine is stock except for Dinan intake (and chip?). It's Alpine white. I think I'll jeep it that way.

I have cold weather, leather steering wheel but alcantara seats, and HK audio, and adaptive bi xenons. No premium pkg.

Had 12k miles when i got it. Now has exactly 30k
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The 128i is a great car. I wouldn't want any other modern BMW unless I had to carry passengers all the time.


That's the only problem. My son is already 4'6".
 
As an outside observer to this thread it appears to me when anybody buys any car they know there will be certain things you have to deal with. I think being familar with these things and being ready to live with them helps you to enjoy the car even more.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Vastly different, clearly you don't have any actual experience with a good car.

For starters German cars are designed to be fixed, unlike a lot of American [censored] that's just riveted together to get it to 100k miles.

That's a very important design philosophy that you understand after working on them. On my Mercedes their was always room to swing a wrench to get something apart, they always left you room to work. On my Chevy truck not so much.

Well that's good they are still making some of the cars with some space to work, but I don't think that common anymore, Overkill's example of a new BMW having a split liquid cooled ECU? Um, doesn't sound like that unclutters the engine bay to me. At my last track day, an Audi S4 started dumping oil and when the guy opened the hood I cringed. I don't think ease of serviceability was very high on the list of priorities when they designed that car. Fortunately for him it was the simplest oil leak it could be, a loose engine oil filter.
Anyways I'm not elbows deep into german cars too often, but it seems alot of the known problems with these cars wouldn't occur with better materials than normal cars. If your going to have 4 times the wiring as a corrola, then you'd better use better connectors and wiring than a corolla otherwise you'll have 4 times the issues! But what is a common complaint about BMW's?
I guess the market also shows that with the huge depreciation rates on these cars, they aren't that cost effective to own as used cars. At the prices of a 10 year old 3 series, I'd snap one up in a second if I thought I could maintain it for somewhere close to the costs of a japanese or american car. But odds are that it will be a very costly luxury over driving a 10 year old Neon or an Accord.


[censored] breaks what can you do.

I wouldn't recommend owning a German, or any other high end car out of warranty if spending a few grand a year on it would cause financial hardship.

You can pick up used Ferrari's cheap too because people buy them who really shouldn't and get slapped with a $10k service and can't afford it.

Still makes them amazing cars, nothing drives like a BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, or Ferrari. For a few grand a year the drive and experience of a nice car is cheap.

A Corolla is a cheap FWD POS used for tooling around at 30mph because you can't afford a good car. An M5 is a beast, I'd never in a million years consider buying a Corolla, but I'd happily enjoy an M5 and I don't really care if it blows a $1k computer. You have to pay to play.

Because at 90mph the Corolla is past is design limits and done, at 90 the M5 is oh so sweet and I can grab 4th gear and go like [censored].
 
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I find automotive appliances such as the Corolla to be much too dangerous for my tastes; I would almost certainly die of boredom if I had to drive one on a daily basis...
 
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