Let's talk BMW's

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Speaking of other BMW engine-related issues - google VANOS seals. Quite a widely spread problem on many I6 engines from early 90s to mid 00s, related to a poor material used for the piston seal o-rings. BMW hid their head in the sand and provided no support to the owners, unless you happened to be still under warranty. And even then, they'd just replace them with another set of faulty seals. You'd have to get aftermarket ones to permanently fix the problem.

Then there was the HPFP issue on the more recent 3-liter turbo engines. After a lot of outcry from the owners and negative media coverage, BMW finally agreed to extend warranties on these HPFPs.

But again, most other mfgs run into issues as well, so let's not single out BMW. Some handle it better than others.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


Then there was the HPFP issue on the more recent 3-liter turbo engines. After a lot of outcry from the owners and negative media coverage, BMW finally agreed to extend warranties on these HPFPs.


When it goes, replace it with a walbro 255 fuel pump and forget about it.

Every BMW owner I have talked to has had random quarks with their 3 or 5 series, nothing major, but they are all problems that I wouldn't be too mad about, it is inherent to have a lot of problems when you get as sophisticated as they do with numerous gizmos throughout the interior in a BMW.

The most important thing is that NONE of them said the problems were enough to sell the car or never buy another BMW, the other aspects of the car, MPG, power, styling, and comfort far outweigh the cost of maintaining the car and dealing with the quarks even if you don't DIY, If you do, they are truly as cheap as any GM car to maintain.
 
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I owned 3, the last one a 70k 7 series with more problems than not.

But I'm not bashing here, just stunned to hear ANY manufacturer with actual rod bearing issues. Normally these engines would be beat to death in developmental mules and thoroughly shaken down before sale to the public.

It's a highly unusual failure for a very respected marque. Thus my inquiry. My good friend who I see every week has also owned a few BMW's and came away with a poor taste in his mouth regarding reliability versus cost of ownership. That's a VERY personal decision, and each buyer has to decide for themselves.

As Quattro Pete said above, some handle it better than others. That's why I wanted to hear from some other people familiar with the brand. Many times problematic cars are from poor dealership service experiences, not just low build quality.
 
Originally Posted By: shrooms
IMO, BMW is an extremely overrated brand. Sub par quality. A car this 'expensive' should not have this issue. My neighbor just bought a brand new 7 series and I actually felt bad for him. He asked me how do I like the car and I didn't have the heart to tell him that he bought junk.

Beautiful LOOKING car, but it's junk.


I feel the exact same way. They may look good, but besides that they offer nothing.

I rather have an ugly car, that run's good, is reliable, and is comfortable.
 
I used to dislike BMW's - till I drove one. I think they are superb cars in many ways: handling, interior quality, silky-smooth engines and the logical, effortless way everything works.
I can see how the yuppy-car image all the way from eighties turns people off and the haters are ten-in-a-dozen with wild stories about how bad they are.

As for the reliablity, you can't beat the japanese makes. A Lexus or Acura is statistically more reliable than a BMW, Audi or a Mercedes but given the criteria for choosing a premium car, I don't think ultimate realiability is of utmost importance. This is not to say that improvement isn't needed, it would benefit customer satisfaction and promote a better image for the marque.

And since we are talking about technical problems, they exist with every car manufacturer: E-class Mercs with their disastrous electric brakes, Audi 2.5 TDI's eating their camshafts and failing turbos, Volvo's with sludge and balljoints that last a max of 2 years. Not to mention Alfa-romeo, a driving testament to how many problems can be crammed into one car.

When buying a car of this type the cost of ownership is inevitably higher than an average Corolla and I feel most people don't realize this until the repair-bill hits them in the face.
A new BMW is not designed for low-income individuals and neither is a used one, despite the lower purchase price.
 
Originally Posted By: 07Wolfie
If you're going to strictly classify "quality" as a function of "reliability", then don't you have to account for the complexity of the system? A 4-cyl Camry with crank windows is undoubtedly going to be more reliable than a 550i, but how much of that reliability is a result of simplicity or a basic lack of equipment? Don't we accept that a much more complex car with many more systems is going to have an inherently higher number of issues?

Good point.
 
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


Then there was the HPFP issue on the more recent 3-liter turbo engines. After a lot of outcry from the owners and negative media coverage, BMW finally agreed to extend warranties on these HPFPs.


When it goes, replace it with a walbro 255 fuel pump and forget about it.

The HPFP isn't the in-tank pump. It's at the engine and produces astronomical (for a gas engine) fuel pressures for the direct injection system. >$3k part new IIRC....
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: shrooms
IMO, BMW is an extremely overrated brand. Sub par quality. A car this 'expensive' should not have this issue. My neighbor just bought a brand new 7 series and I actually felt bad for him. He asked me how do I like the car and I didn't have the heart to tell him that he bought junk.

Beautiful LOOKING car, but it's junk.


I feel the exact same way. They may look good, but besides that they offer nothing.

I rather have an ugly car, that run's good, is reliable, and is comfortable.


Have you ever actually owned one?
 
I like my old BMW.
It is as reliable as a hammer, and I've put 21K+ on it over the past two summers.
I use it as a good weather daily driver.
It's fun to drive, it's economical to drive and parts quality seems better than that of mainstream cars.
For example, the airbag light still goes out as it should, the ABS still works as it should, the power windows and door locks still work as they should, as does the cruise and the AC.
I do own an old and simple BMW, but its parts and build quality seem at least on par with any Japanese car of the same era, if not better.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: shrooms
IMO, BMW is an extremely overrated brand. Sub par quality. A car this 'expensive' should not have this issue. My neighbor just bought a brand new 7 series and I actually felt bad for him. He asked me how do I like the car and I didn't have the heart to tell him that he bought junk.

Beautiful LOOKING car, but it's junk.


I feel the exact same way. They may look good, but besides that they offer nothing.

I rather have an ugly car, that run's good, is reliable, and is comfortable.


Have you ever actually owned one?


Much to your surprise, I have. I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46, before I traded it in for my RX300. I owned it for 3 years, and the first year was fine. It had a few electrical issues, that were sorted out. The last two years, were not the greatest. The dealer was fed up with the car, as was I. It had a few rattles that never seemed to go away, no matter how much the dealer attempted to fix them. The ride was harsh, all though some people may like that type of ride. The drivetrain wasn't smooth, I could feel the vibration's at idle, and it wasn't as nearly as refined as the Lexus I traded it in for, which not to mention was older than it by 2 years.
 
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Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: shrooms
IMO, BMW is an extremely overrated brand. Sub par quality. A car this 'expensive' should not have this issue. My neighbor just bought a brand new 7 series and I actually felt bad for him. He asked me how do I like the car and I didn't have the heart to tell him that he bought junk.

Beautiful LOOKING car, but it's junk.


I feel the exact same way. They may look good, but besides that they offer nothing.

I rather have an ugly car, that run's good, is reliable, and is comfortable.


Have you ever actually owned one?


Much to your surprise, I have. I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46, before I traded it in for my RX300. I owned it for 3 years, and the first year was fine. It had a few electrical issues, that were sorted out. The last two years, were not the greatest. The dealer was fed up with the car, as was I. It had a few rattles that never seemed to go away, no matter how much the dealer attempted to fix them. The ride was harsh, all though some people may like that type of ride. The drivetrain wasn't smooth, I could feel the vibration's at idle, and it wasn't as nearly as refined as the Lexus I traded it in for, which not to mention was older than it by 2 years.


I AM surprised actually.

However, it sounds like an M5 would have been a better choice, since it isn't the "pocket rocket" entry like the M3, and so has a much more compliant ride and the traits you sound like you wanted, rather than those you disliked about the M3. Which also makes me question why you bought an M3?

That being said, you traded a pocket-rocket type car for a luxury SUV.......They aren't even in the same ballpark! Perhaps if you had gone from an X5 or something to the RX300, but I don't even know where to begin on this?
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46,

[...]

The ride was harsh


Speechless.


lol.gif


yeah, its not the most Lincoln-like of cars!
crackmeup2.gif
 
They are a different category...
BUT, I didn't get rid of the M3 because of it's ride. I knew that's what I was getting, when I purchased it. I got rid of it, because of other things. I pay close attention to detail, and I did not pay +-$40k for a car that vibrates at idle. It was the smaller things, that really made me get out of the car. It was constantly going in to the dealer for random things, that would come and go. At one point, I couldn't get the frickin' wipers to stop. It was an electrical nightmare.

As to why, I originally bought an M3, instead of an M5. Well, it's simply because I was getting a much better deal on the M3. At the time, I honestly didn't care for the difference's between the two. Maybe, If I had done more research prior to purchasing, I would have gone with the M5.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46,

[...]

The ride was harsh


Speechless.


Just because it's a sport's car doesn't mean that the suspension has to harsh.

For example, I've driven a few IS's. And, none of them had a rough/harsh suspension. They were complaint with the road surfaces, and didn't sacrifice any handling or performance.

The M3 definitely handled well, but you felt every single crack and dip in the road. Unlike the competition, whose ride wasn't as harsh. I even tried a different set of tires, but I still had a harsh ride.
 
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Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46,

[...]

The ride was harsh


Speechless.


Just because it's a sport's car doesn't mean that the suspension has to harsh.

For example, I've driven a few IS's. And, none of them had a rough/harsh suspension. They were complaint with the road surfaces, and didn't sacrifice any handling or performance.

The M3 definitely handled well, but you felt every single crack and dip in the road. Unlike the competition, whose ride wasn't as harsh. I even tried a different set of tires, but I still had a harsh ride.


But you didn't try a different BMW? Like a 5-series? I mean you replaced it with an SUV, so the hang-up couldn't have been on size.
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46,

[...]

The ride was harsh


Speechless.


Just because it's a sport's car doesn't mean that the suspension has to harsh.

I know, but we're talking about an M3 here specifically. It is very well known for its harsh ride - kind of its trait, I think. If you did your research and did the test drives, you would have known that.

But as far as annoying electrical gremlins, I can totally understand how they can make one miserable and don't blame you for ditching the car based on this alone.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I had a 2002 BMW M3 E46,

[...]

The ride was harsh


Speechless.


Just because it's a sport's car doesn't mean that the suspension has to harsh.

For example, I've driven a few IS's. And, none of them had a rough/harsh suspension. They were complaint with the road surfaces, and didn't sacrifice any handling or performance.

The M3 definitely handled well, but you felt every single crack and dip in the road. Unlike the competition, whose ride wasn't as harsh. I even tried a different set of tires, but I still had a harsh ride.


But you didn't try a different BMW? Like a 5-series? I mean you replaced it with an SUV, so the hang-up couldn't have been on size.


No. The problems with the M3 left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd heard horror stories, before I purchased the M3, but I figured I would take a bite and see how it was. Obviously, it didn't work out for me. And, that's fine. It is what it is.

And, the main reason I left the M3 wasn't because of the ride. It was due to the electrical problems, I was having.

I've heard, and seen enough from family and friends to know that I don't want a BMW, again.
 
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Quote:
And, the main reason I left the M3 wasn't because of the ride. It was due to the electrical problems, I was having.


I've heard, and seen enough from family and friends to know that I don't want a BMW, again. [/quote]

Did anything else happen besides electrical problems? How much did it run you in repairs?
 
The rattles, vibration in idle, and over all the drivetrain wasn't smooth. The power delivery wasn't linear (all though that's to be expected with a high-reving motor). < I didn't think any of this was acceptable, in a car this expensive.

The electrical problems were mostly covered by warranty, I "only" had to pay around $1,000. The rest was covered by the warranty, after much frustration and many phone calls to corporate.

The entire experience, was terrible. It's not something people should go through, after paying X dollars for a car, that's supposed to surpass all other manufcatures. I thought I was paying premium for a premium product, but it turns out I was paying premium for just an ordinary product.
 
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