Let’s change the “thick vs. thin” up a little: Mercon LV vs ULV!

PiperOne said:
I do know the 10 speed units in GM HD's don't play well with a ~6Cst (LV) fluid, they need the ~4 Cst ULV. Shift timing and slip get messed up by 'saving' the trans with a 'thick' fluid. In the GM case, the coolers are now HUGE and temps are very tightly controlled, incl an automatic warm up function at cold start (in addition to the user selectable elevated idle warmup sequence). So while thinner, the oil just doesn't get hot. My 22 GM dually hasn't been over 155F yet, even loaded.
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Sounds like it has a cooler bypass valve - when they fail things get really hot … wonder if they should be a service item …
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
Where did you get your filter from and how much did it run?

I would like a dipstick too, but there’s zero chance in Hades I’m going to pay 2 Benjamin’s for one. IMO, if a trans isn’t leaking, a transmission does not consume trans fluid, so if the level is set properly at the service time, you should be OK.
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It's a Motorcraft I picked up from RockAuto a while back when they were actually in stock. Looks like it was $45 shipped. Spendy, but I figure it is good for 50k give or take, so not that terrible.
 
As far as Ford goes with the 10R60/10R80/10R140

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/...0r140-10r80-and-10r60-the-same-but-different/

"WHAT THEY HAVE IN COMMON

The one component with the slightest variance is the valve body. The basic assembly is the same but cannot interchange between the variants. All units share the CIDAS (Casting- Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid), Pressure Control, and Torque Converter Clutch solenoids (figure 5).

While the solenoids are all position-sensitive, the OEM replacement is the same base part number for all variants.

........

Shift strategy is another item shared in the 10R family. Skip-shifting is normal and dependent on throttle demand and other load factors. Not all ranges will be selected in sequence on the upshift or downshift. For example, if you take off from a stop under moderate throttle pressure, you may experience a 1-3-5-7-8-9-10 shift sequence. A similar scenario may occur on deceleration. The TCM programming algorithm is designed to work seamlessly with the engine to produce nearly unperceivable shifts while providing the correct ratio given driver demand and driving conditions.

Torque converter scheduling is designed for maximum fuel efficiency. As a result, the converter clutch apply is noticeably delayed for smaller displacement engines compared to larger high-torque engines.

Normal operating temperature is a curious subject for discussion for these units. We have spent our whole transmission career trying to find ways to keep our units cool. Our mantra is the cooler the transmission runs, the longer it will live, right? Well, that goes out the door with these units! The normal operating temperature range for the 10R applications is 195°F to 215°F (90°C to 101°C). Yes, this is the OEM specified range, so don’t correct it. Everything from the friction and steel plates to the fluid is designed to function at its optimal level when the unit reaches this range. So, on a hot Arizona day, when you are pulling a 40-foot trailer uphill to the lake, it is common to see temperatures spike as high as 230°F!"
 
4WD said:
The 80’s are good to +/- 650 torque - so not HD area code …
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The 10L100 is GM's "Allison" transmission that doesn't use TES-668 fluid. Is it a beefier version of the 10L80?
 
4WD said:
The 80’s are good to +/- 650 torque - so not HD area code …
Click to expand...
Can’t argue with the torque side of this, but 5 Star Tuning that did my tune says the 10R80 is good to ~800rwhp on the 3.5, so that’s likely in the same range of torque.

I’m still trying to decide what I’m going to do with my truck; I’ve got an S&B intake, AMS intake tubes, a CVF Titan II intercooler and the 5 Star E30 tune. Considering 5 Star put down 510rwhp on this tune with an otherwise stock truck, I’ll use 510rwhp as my estimate for now on that tune, which I run mainly in the summer, when pump E85 is around $1/gal cheaper around here.

Next up has to be either/both an in-tank and HP fuel pump since they consider the stock truck maxed on E30, and I’m also looking at some CRP manifolds, CRP or Garrett upgraded turbos, AMS turbo adapters, and a Stainless Works down pipe. Then, a full E85 tune and some “real” E85 from Ignite Racing Fuels for track days… If I put it on the dyno at that point, I’d expect north of 650+ at the wheels. Im not interested in breaking parts, so the truck will never wear drag tires- rubber is cheaper than steel or aluminum 🤣
 
The 10L1000 has 2 things the same as the 10L80. Both made by GM, both have 10 forward speeds....it stops there. Allison was involved in the development and validation of the transmission, and allows their name to be branded with it. It has nothing in common with the previous 6 speed Allison 1000LCT (also built by GM for their trucks).
 
PiperOne said:
The 10L1000 has 2 things the same as the 10L80. Both made by GM, both have 10 forward speeds....it stops there.
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I know. One is even branded "Allison".

And yet they both use the same ULV ATF. What does that tell you?
 
Rod Knock said:
I know. One is even branded "Allison".

And yet they both use the same ULV ATF. What does that tell you?
Click to expand...
GM is building transmissions that require ultra precise hydraulic flows to achieve decent driveability in transmissions that are far more operationally complex than older units with fewer shifts to make.

If you think the 10L80 and 10L1000 are somehow the same unit.....good luck with that. I work on both and own the big one.

But hey, if you want to tell folks thick fluid is okay in them, knock yourself out. My trucks and my customers get what is supposed to be used.
 
clinebarger said:
It's not a true Allison engineered unit, You could say the 10R140 & 10L1000 are derivatives of the 10R80 & 10L80 in basic operation but were engineered/scaled-up independently.
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I know, that's why I said branded "Allison". GM kept the right to use the Allison name after they sold the company to the Carlisle Group.

PiperOne said:
GM is building transmissions that require ultra precise hydraulic flows to achieve decent driveability in transmissions that are far more operationally complex than older units with fewer shifts to make.

If you think the 10L80 and 10L1000 are somehow the same unit.....good luck with that. I work on both and own the big one.

But hey, if you want to tell folks thick fluid is okay in them, knock yourself out. My trucks and my customers get what is supposed to be used.
Click to expand...
I think you're missing the point.
 
@SubieRubyRoo will verify this with someone who knows way more about ATF than I do, and when he does, he'll most likely report back here. And if I'm wrong, I'll shut up and eat my slice of humble pie.
 
Rod Knock said:
I know, that's why I said branded "Allison". GM kept the right to use the Allison name after they sold the company to the Carlisle Group.
Click to expand...

They kept the rights to produce & brand the LCT1000/LCT2000 5 & 6 Speed units which were Allison engineered. The way it sounds is.....Allison had to validate the design before signing off on branding the 10L1000 an Allison.
 
@SubieRubyRoo:
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