Hey guys, Don't forget to pay the toll to the troll.
Lets all ask ourselves a question
- Thread starter dif2
- Start date
- Status
You too huh???
(
When I looked at the "preview" of this post, I scared myself. If anyone is worried that they are going off the edge, I'll see you at the bottom ...)
Who are you to judge? A behavior does not become a disorder until it impedes functioning in daily life; you simply can't take a guess and say that you know someone's posting habits are hindering their ability to "live". That’s really all there is to say about that.
It's hard enough to ascertain someone's motivations when you have them right in front of you; it's nearly impossible when all you have is something they typed in a thread. For example, one of my motivations for posting on boards like these is that I have the ability to spew words like a loose cannon. It's one of the few places in my life where I don't have to analyze everything to death, so it serves as a release for me, especially since it's anonymous, and I'm not going to lose my job if I say something stupid. How else would you know that unless I told you?
I gave a few people in the stereo equipment thread a bunch of **** for their obsession with high-end audio (read my post please, I understand the point you are trying to make), but the naked truth is that I have absolutely no idea whether or not JHZR2’s (or anyone else’s) involvement with that type of interest is maladaptive. Maybe the ability to patiently and critically dissect fine details is important to some other function in their life, and so honing that skill is vital, rather than destructive to them. Same obsession, different scenario, (e.g. someone who is a police officer), and that skill might not be as valuable: that person might indeed be better served by engaging in a different type of recreation. Or not…. what if that police officer simply takes great joy in fiddling with that sort of thing because he/she is successful at it (raises self-esteem, self-concept) or enjoys the solitude of the activity after a long day, or just reminds them of good memories from times past? Maybe he/she doesn’t really care about the music or the equipment, and only does it so he/she can engage in debates with other people, or attract negative attention from critics. Maybe they only care about impressing someone with their knowledge of a particular subject, or possession of a particular type of good. Maybe they feel guilt or shame about an aspect of their obsession and want to find other people like them to feel accepted and/or escape criticism. Maybe they just want to find people like them period. Maybe there only appears to be a dysfunction/unhealthy level of attachment when in fact there isn’t. Maybe the “disorder” is temporary and will work itself out. Maybe it becomes permanent if you don’t act quickly. Maybe they are driven by the desire to obtain the best of everything. Maybe they are driven by the desire to correct flaws in external objects to compensate for the flaws that they cannot correct in themselves. Maybe it’s all of these. Maybe it’s none of these. Maybe it’s mostly two of these, only sort of a third one, and the fourth one is moderated by how often they get together with an old friend. MAYBE YOU DON’T KNOW.
None of this is automatically good or bad. I guess it would technically be preferable if everyone were perfect to begin with, but… yeah. By engaging in an activity, you are just fulfilling a need. Nothing wrong with that, it’s called finding a solution to a problem. Some solutions are more practical than others, because they are effective for a longer time, or actually fix the problem instead of masking it, or are more socially desirable, etc., but insofar as the solution does not cause more problems than it creates, or infringes on another person’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I say go for it. If I need to talk to a volleyball because I am marooned on an island without any kind of meaningful social interaction, then I talk to the volleyball. If I get home, and I am still talking to the volleyball, something needs to change. Otherwise, think of that type of solution as a patch. Some types of solutions are a quick-fix, and some types are an overhaul; the type that is best all depends on the situation. If I live in denial or shock following an event because I don’t possess the mental faculties or have the necessary help to cope with the problem, then I live in denial or shock for a while until I am able to. I’ve been known to have [more than] a few beers on occasion if I’m absolutely drained at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, except that the “patch” can start to become a problem itself after a while if you aren’t actively seeking out new solutions to whatever ails you. None of this is really that complicated; it’s just that trying to find the right solution for the problem and make it stick is tricky. Anywho, I’m off on a rabbit trail again…
Don’t worry so much about whether or not some random guy is sitting in front of his computer watching a screen while he/she could be doing other things that would give his/her life more meaning and fulfillment. Maybe that’s what they need right then. The real danger is when a quick-fix coping mechanism (like alcohol) or an adjunct method for fulfilling a social or personal need becomes the only thing you have in your arsenal. Then you’re screwed.
*whew* I don’t drag out this speech very often, I’m winded. All that to say: IMO, most of the people who are very active members of this board are doing it largely out of the goodness of their hearts, and because they just simply enjoy chatting about the topics that come up, not because they are psychotic hermits with consuming oil-related obsessions/compulsions.
Who are you to judge? A behavior does not become a disorder until it impedes functioning in daily life; you simply can't take a guess and say that you know someone's posting habits are hindering their ability to "live". That’s really all there is to say about that.
It's hard enough to ascertain someone's motivations when you have them right in front of you; it's nearly impossible when all you have is something they typed in a thread. For example, one of my motivations for posting on boards like these is that I have the ability to spew words like a loose cannon. It's one of the few places in my life where I don't have to analyze everything to death, so it serves as a release for me, especially since it's anonymous, and I'm not going to lose my job if I say something stupid. How else would you know that unless I told you?
I gave a few people in the stereo equipment thread a bunch of **** for their obsession with high-end audio (read my post please, I understand the point you are trying to make), but the naked truth is that I have absolutely no idea whether or not JHZR2’s (or anyone else’s) involvement with that type of interest is maladaptive. Maybe the ability to patiently and critically dissect fine details is important to some other function in their life, and so honing that skill is vital, rather than destructive to them. Same obsession, different scenario, (e.g. someone who is a police officer), and that skill might not be as valuable: that person might indeed be better served by engaging in a different type of recreation. Or not…. what if that police officer simply takes great joy in fiddling with that sort of thing because he/she is successful at it (raises self-esteem, self-concept) or enjoys the solitude of the activity after a long day, or just reminds them of good memories from times past? Maybe he/she doesn’t really care about the music or the equipment, and only does it so he/she can engage in debates with other people, or attract negative attention from critics. Maybe they only care about impressing someone with their knowledge of a particular subject, or possession of a particular type of good. Maybe they feel guilt or shame about an aspect of their obsession and want to find other people like them to feel accepted and/or escape criticism. Maybe they just want to find people like them period. Maybe there only appears to be a dysfunction/unhealthy level of attachment when in fact there isn’t. Maybe the “disorder” is temporary and will work itself out. Maybe it becomes permanent if you don’t act quickly. Maybe they are driven by the desire to obtain the best of everything. Maybe they are driven by the desire to correct flaws in external objects to compensate for the flaws that they cannot correct in themselves. Maybe it’s all of these. Maybe it’s none of these. Maybe it’s mostly two of these, only sort of a third one, and the fourth one is moderated by how often they get together with an old friend. MAYBE YOU DON’T KNOW.
None of this is automatically good or bad. I guess it would technically be preferable if everyone were perfect to begin with, but… yeah. By engaging in an activity, you are just fulfilling a need. Nothing wrong with that, it’s called finding a solution to a problem. Some solutions are more practical than others, because they are effective for a longer time, or actually fix the problem instead of masking it, or are more socially desirable, etc., but insofar as the solution does not cause more problems than it creates, or infringes on another person’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I say go for it. If I need to talk to a volleyball because I am marooned on an island without any kind of meaningful social interaction, then I talk to the volleyball. If I get home, and I am still talking to the volleyball, something needs to change. Otherwise, think of that type of solution as a patch. Some types of solutions are a quick-fix, and some types are an overhaul; the type that is best all depends on the situation. If I live in denial or shock following an event because I don’t possess the mental faculties or have the necessary help to cope with the problem, then I live in denial or shock for a while until I am able to. I’ve been known to have [more than] a few beers on occasion if I’m absolutely drained at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, except that the “patch” can start to become a problem itself after a while if you aren’t actively seeking out new solutions to whatever ails you. None of this is really that complicated; it’s just that trying to find the right solution for the problem and make it stick is tricky. Anywho, I’m off on a rabbit trail again…
Don’t worry so much about whether or not some random guy is sitting in front of his computer watching a screen while he/she could be doing other things that would give his/her life more meaning and fulfillment. Maybe that’s what they need right then. The real danger is when a quick-fix coping mechanism (like alcohol) or an adjunct method for fulfilling a social or personal need becomes the only thing you have in your arsenal. Then you’re screwed.
*whew* I don’t drag out this speech very often, I’m winded. All that to say: IMO, most of the people who are very active members of this board are doing it largely out of the goodness of their hearts, and because they just simply enjoy chatting about the topics that come up, not because they are psychotic hermits with consuming oil-related obsessions/compulsions.
Ditto. If you never had a dad or someone who could teach you all this stuff, this site is a godsend. I'm very thankful "they" put in the work they do.
I'm here because I told the guys on my Audi Forum that I'd go and learn everything I could about the long-life oils recommended for our cars' 10k changes. It turns out making the 10k recommendation was a mistake, maybe even on the best oils. The effect was that I helped a lot of people avert expensive problems on their cars. Not only Audis had oil problems too, Mercedes and Toyota too. I don't have to justify my presence here to anyone. Some of the smartest people I've met online are here and frankly my personal friends are not to with-it when it comes to cars.
Few people actually know squat about oil. That's partly why I think it's cool...knowing something that even so-called "experts" don't is awesome.
I hope the original poster came away with a bit of knowledge he did not have before. Likely he did, but is in a state of confusion about his place in the bigger scheme. Here we have the whole range of skills and levels represented. Formulators, enthusiasts and simple users all enjoy learning...too bad you don't. Sad...for you.
PS- I service 6-7 cars, so it's good to know a thing or two before you spend money on oil service.
Few people actually know squat about oil. That's partly why I think it's cool...knowing something that even so-called "experts" don't is awesome.
I hope the original poster came away with a bit of knowledge he did not have before. Likely he did, but is in a state of confusion about his place in the bigger scheme. Here we have the whole range of skills and levels represented. Formulators, enthusiasts and simple users all enjoy learning...too bad you don't. Sad...for you.
PS- I service 6-7 cars, so it's good to know a thing or two before you spend money on oil service.
Poster originally registered as "Drive it Forever" with 843 Posts and at least 1 UOA. I think he has issues outside the Forum that he needs to address. Good luck with that.
Since finding this board, I have enjoyed going to the girl vs girl oil wrestling matches.
Where are those, exactly?
So what? Buy her a wig and use your imagination...
I think it's near B.F.E.
But I don't believe you've never scared anybody before. Naybe you just scared them so badly they were afraid to let you know...
Gang, My regards to everyone! Remember the TV show "CHEERS"? BITHOG, reminds me very much of that show and it's theme song, that had a phrase, "where everybody knows your name".
My family owned a Tavern and I kept the place, it was an avocation and not my primary work. My friends who were wealthy and Big-Shots, in their own mind, kept telling me to get rid of it. I did when the downtown area of Ann Arbor, was redeveloped and the price was right, of course. Why did I keep it? I told them the truth, I liked it, My friends and customers, but primarily, It gave me a place to go. Just like here. It's a nice place!!! I like to visit here for a few hours, it takes my mind off of other things and allows me, mind and body to relax. I also have learned many things. I have many new friends and from all over the world! An Oil Forum with a Food and Cooking-Gourmet Section. MAN, What a Country!!!
My family owned a Tavern and I kept the place, it was an avocation and not my primary work. My friends who were wealthy and Big-Shots, in their own mind, kept telling me to get rid of it. I did when the downtown area of Ann Arbor, was redeveloped and the price was right, of course. Why did I keep it? I told them the truth, I liked it, My friends and customers, but primarily, It gave me a place to go. Just like here. It's a nice place!!! I like to visit here for a few hours, it takes my mind off of other things and allows me, mind and body to relax. I also have learned many things. I have many new friends and from all over the world! An Oil Forum with a Food and Cooking-Gourmet Section. MAN, What a Country!!!
How about an Oil forum with a bass fishing section?
You made me look. A fishing forum talking about the proper grease for our worm gears and oils for the ball bearings and if white lithium grease really is the best disc drag lube forum ...My imagination went wild.
MarkC, a wig will be plan b. I'm still working on the girlfriend proposal
As if I'd spend money on a girlfriend
As if I'd spend money on a girlfriend
JHZR2
Staff member
Interesting analysis...
I have been inclined to ask a similar question as dif2... from time to time, because its like I'm addicted to this site... well, Im addicted to the internet in general: I can go and search about and learn new things forever. To the point that I dont get other things done, or my fiancee makes fun of me for spending a lot of time online, etc. Why? I dont know.. I dont think its any of the reasons that you mentioned.
Some people have a genuine desire to learn about new things, and especially so when what theyr are learning is related to something that they really enjoy.
I have a number of things going for (or against) me... Im an advanced degree chemical engineer... and I have a LOT of interests. THe fact that Im an engineer makes me interested in technical stuff, regardless of what it is... and the fact that I have a lot of interests makes me want to find out lots of different things, technical or not. The fact that oil, oil chemistry, surface chemistry, engines, cars, etc. is related to what I do for a living, and what I like to do as a hobby, makes this site great. And if I werent on this one, Id be on another one... mercedesshop.com or zr2.com most likely...
The fact that this site is so multifaceted, has so many experts in so many areas, and yet has an overarching theme related to a number of things that interest me in my line of work and hobby wise (how many other 25 year olds do you know that own 4 cars?) makes it better. The fact that it is mature, the folks that typically are on here seemingly think similarly to me makes it even nicer.
I think everyone has some degree of uncertainty in things they do... no matter how confident they come across. The fact that I can come to a "one stop shop" and ask about why my hamburgers dont stck together, what kind of speakers I should buy for my new house, or if pennzoil of GC is better for my 4.3 based on x,y, and z found in UOAs provides such value that it is beyond belief... And though Im happy to see the board grow in membership, the fact that there are always familiar handles on here to put in their 2c is also nice.
Now, about the stereo thread... I do know that I come up with new ideas of what I should buy or might want to buy, or would dream of buying. I think this is common in the consumer age... Is there anything wrong witrh me speccing out a new vette Z06 becuase I REALLY like the car? Is there anything wrong with talking about Staber appliances, because I dont know the full history of those that came in the house I bought, and I know that sooner or later Ill need to replace them? Or, on a smaler level than even that... If Im setting up my living room after moving into my house, and realize that the best stereo I have is my old Aiwa all in one 3CD changer... Does it hurt to recognize the need to get something better, since I so desire, and appreciate 'techy' stuff?
You stated:
But as an engineer, I want to be analytical... I want to do tradeff analysis, and see what is smarter use of my money. I appreciate the thought, but for me, im cheap enough to recognize that Ill never spend the kinds of $$$ that some do... I know that Ill budget this amount for this and that amount for that... and then save to buy it. But I want my money to go the furthest, and want to know what Im looking for when Im analyzing what I might buy. There are three types of consumers:
-ones that buy something to buy it, and then take a shot at being satisfied, dissatisfied and sucking it up, or doing it multiple times until they find something right
-ones that throw money at the problem, and buy as much as they can afford or can get into debt buying, thinking that money is the end all
-ones that leverage on others' knowledge and try to find out what offers the best of multiple worlds, while learning something interesting technically about why things are how they are and why one should look at this or that. i.e. an educated consumer
Do I want stereo equipment because money burns a hole in my pocket, or fills a gap in me? Maybe... but I am the first to say that Im super cheap... Do I need to find out about new stuff to buy because I just want to find out stuff to buy? Maybe... and Ill admit, sometimes I am a bit of an impulse buyer... but remember I am really cheap. But its fair to say that I want to find out about stuff to buy the same as I might want to find out how to make my car better, or how to make the transmission last longer, or what tires to pick... i.e. ways to spend money on cars and maintenance instead of other gadgets.
So, in the end all, I dont write this because I take issue with you bringing up the stereo thread... I write this because it is very interesting analysis on your part.
And IMO, I want to get stereo equipment because I appreciate music, want to make the home that Ill be living in for 20+ years (hopefully) the way I want it, and because I like technology, whether its comupters, audio, or cars... Thank goodness I have this site to sit on and "waste"
Thats why Im on here... no matter how frugal or completely stocked we may be, things alwyas need to be done, things always break, things always need to be purchased... Couple the need for that know how, with the need for auto maintenance due to necessity or hobby, and the value from this site is immense. Ive learned more on here about a million things, than I have at any other forum... Thats why I kep coming back. Likely if it was ONLY about oil.. Id be here a LOT less.
Once again, very *** and interesting analysis!
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
BTW, You talked about my/our collective interest in stereo equipment potentially being maladaptive...
Well i had to look that up:
Once again, thank godness I have this site to find out how to maintain all the this and that that I find in my home...
And once again, nothing against your post, I just enjoyed reading your analysis!
JMH
Well i had to look that up:
I dont think that any of those are me, except perhaps impulsivity. And thats really why I thought about needing to upgrade in the first place... Now that I havea permanent place, i want to really be able to enjoy listening to music and watching movies. To the greatest extent that $n that Im willing to budget will buy... I do heed your advice about being satisfied and not searching for the holy grail... and trust that my impulsivity will not lead me to this... But that said, is there anything so wrong with impulsivity to want to upgrade from something minimal or nonexistant, up to something that is satisfying in some way? Heck, I was impulsive in deciding thathere I am, a single guy, living in a big apartment at a good price, needs to buy a house. So now Im $280k in debt and have my house. Impulsive move, but isnt still the right thing to do?
Once again, thank godness I have this site to find out how to maintain all the this and that that I find in my home...
And once again, nothing against your post, I just enjoyed reading your analysis!
JMH
JHZR2, You're me, only younger, much better educated, probably smarter, richer and better looking. But, who cares? As long as we're having fun.
"I gave a few people in the stereo equipment thread a bunch of **** for their obsession with high-end audio (read my post please, I understand the point you are trying to make), but the naked truth is that I have absolutely no idea whether or not JHZR2’s (or anyone else’s) involvement with that type of interest is maladaptive. Maybe the ability to patiently and critically dissect fine details is important to some other function in their life, and so honing that skill is vital, rather than destructive to them."
I can remember solving the the problem of minimizing tracking error on LPs, and finding out that the problem had been solved in the 1950s by some other whackos :^) At least my solution agreed with others, although mine allowed for different assumptions to be used up front. Eventually I came to appreciate the ability to use an impulse response as an initial measure of a system's sound quality. Photography was another hobby, astronomy too, and I came to understnd that a star test can be used to assess optical quality. A star test is just a different type of an impulse response, which I though was neat as the same type of test provided a good measure of quality for three of my hobbies :^) I did end up using my photo hobby at work, helping to identify a solution on a problem that ended up costing many, many millions of dollars.
Not as many people modify vehicles these days, and lubrication seems to be one of the few things that you can diddle with to try to make them last, which is more important than it use to be as vehicles cost so much. It helps in other activities too, as you're always looking for ways to oil/grease/lube something to make it work, and to make it last.
I can remember solving the the problem of minimizing tracking error on LPs, and finding out that the problem had been solved in the 1950s by some other whackos :^) At least my solution agreed with others, although mine allowed for different assumptions to be used up front. Eventually I came to appreciate the ability to use an impulse response as an initial measure of a system's sound quality. Photography was another hobby, astronomy too, and I came to understnd that a star test can be used to assess optical quality. A star test is just a different type of an impulse response, which I though was neat as the same type of test provided a good measure of quality for three of my hobbies :^) I did end up using my photo hobby at work, helping to identify a solution on a problem that ended up costing many, many millions of dollars.
Not as many people modify vehicles these days, and lubrication seems to be one of the few things that you can diddle with to try to make them last, which is more important than it use to be as vehicles cost so much. It helps in other activities too, as you're always looking for ways to oil/grease/lube something to make it work, and to make it last.
Maybe we just burn off a little perfectionism, or obsession, or call-it-what-you-will. Maybe, just maybe, that makes it a little easier for others to live with us.
Not many enjoy problem solving, in my experience. This place is full of those who do. It may be the only thing we have in common.
Like the old man said, "Son, your basic blue collar guy gets off of work and thinks on only two things: beer and (female genitalia)"
Okay, crude and not true by all means. I generally met more interesting people in the trades than I ever did in an office.
The corollary was that "he'll go to fist city with you if you try to make him think on anything else". Now that I agree with. Around here, on the subject of cars and of other things technical, we have what makes a good board: folks willing to listen.
We come at this place, BITOG, from a lot of directions. I've enjoyed learning, not just parroting board consensus as a result of being here.
As Terry noted, the price of transportation is just too high not to educate oneself. The rest is lagniappe. (that word just for you, JHZR2)
Not many enjoy problem solving, in my experience. This place is full of those who do. It may be the only thing we have in common.
Like the old man said, "Son, your basic blue collar guy gets off of work and thinks on only two things: beer and (female genitalia)"
Okay, crude and not true by all means. I generally met more interesting people in the trades than I ever did in an office.
The corollary was that "he'll go to fist city with you if you try to make him think on anything else". Now that I agree with. Around here, on the subject of cars and of other things technical, we have what makes a good board: folks willing to listen.
We come at this place, BITOG, from a lot of directions. I've enjoyed learning, not just parroting board consensus as a result of being here.
As Terry noted, the price of transportation is just too high not to educate oneself. The rest is lagniappe. (that word just for you, JHZR2)
- Status
