LC20, AutoRX, Boron, Moly, which, where, what, how

[conradcliff]

Hey everyone, basically I'm looking to do what is best for my car but I'm not exactly sure about the whole additive situation...

I know that AutoRX is used for cleaning out the engine but I've also read where people are using 3oz maintenance doses, I'm assuming that this is to keep things clean on a more permanent basis. Can it be used alongside the LC20? And what about moly and boron? Is there an additive that specifically boosts these particle or are they just something you look for in whatever oil you plan on purchasing? I'm pretty sure I'm going to be switching over to Amsoil pretty soon and I want to have all my ducks in a row when I do...
As always any help is very appreciated!

 

[conradcliff]

Also, does the FP3000 pretty much beat out Techron and Redline and all the others?

 

[conradcliff]

I hope that wasn't a really dumb question...

Something funny, I was reading the back of my multivitamin package today and guess what it has in it...molybdenum (or however you spell it) 75mcg's worth, which is 100% of your total needed value if your on a 2000 kcal diet.

 

[Greggy_D]

The consensus here is to not mix LC20 and AutoRx. They end up competing with each other. Use one or the other.

 

[kevz]

I say just use Auto-rx and techron/regane/redline/lucas.

 

[conradcliff]

What about moly and boron?

 

[va3ux]

In general, you shouldn't be worrying about the levels of moly or boron. Unless you have an engine that you absolutely know responds well to higher levels than are currently available. The additive packages in motor oils are complex and require corporations full of well educated chemists, engineers and analysts to formulate. Outside of sheer luck, it's nearly impossible for you or I or 99.9% of the people on this board to actually improve the oil by adding additional additives to a formulated oil.

It is possible to actually hurt the performance of an oil by trying to boost additive levels, due to incompatibility of chemistries.

Yes there are people here posting about using various products to boost moly or zinc levels in their oil, but few (if any of them) post before and after UOA to show actual proof that anything positive resulted from it. Instead something is written like, " I use XYZ and it works great for me". But what does that mean ? How do they know that ? What it means is that they added something, drove their usual OCI, and nothing bad happened (ie. the car still starts and runs and sounds OK). There's no data, no oil analysis, no pictures, no measurements - nothing. That's how much science is behind some of the posts here when it comes to customizing oil.

Read historical posts here from Molakule, Terry Dyson, Bruce381(?), to get a better understanding of the truth behind this stuff.

 

[deepsquat]

actually Terry has said that he IS experamenting with mixing both A-RX and Lube Control..it just isn't a recommended application

 

[conradcliff]

va3ux, so you believe that I should stay away from additives all together...interesting, and...confusing. Anyone else with more good info for me to chew on?

 

[mechtech2]

If you have special needs, like very high spring pressures with wild camshafts, additives with moly or zinc may be the only alternative, because modern oils are being stripped of them. This is a real problem with highly stressed cams/lifters on race type engines.
Other than that, additional cleaners in the oil would be a reasonable idea. Many around here use LC20 on a regular basis.

 

[conradcliff]

So additional Moly and boron wont help to reduce wear on an older engine?

 

[conradcliff]

Does LC20 have moly or boron in large quantities?

 

[Tempest]

The primary idea behind ARX and LC20 is to keep the engine clean. If oil can flow to were it needs to, then wear will be reduced. Most of the "magic" in these products will not show on a simple VOA. If you search, there is a VOA of LC20 on this board.

 

[Frank]

LC20 cleans what? and in no way does it resemble Auto-Rx chemistry. Auto-Rx does not change the viscosity of your host oil. Auto-Rx does make your host oil better than it really is.

You can find photgraphic and oil analysis of Auto-Rx all over this board.

 

[Tempest]

Wwwoooo...there Frank. I said the idea of the product is cleaning. I agree that there is much more information to support ARX than LC for cleaning. This is why use and I am very happy with your product.

However, Terry supports the use of LC and he has a data base to rival all others.

Quote:

---

and in no way does it resemble Auto-Rx chemistry

---

Never said that it did.

 

[dbdeland]

LC does not bond to engine parts it is a primary anti oxidant for the oil. Auto-Rx will not clog up anything as it keeps "contaminants" in liquid form and drives them to filter. Auto-Rx does not change your oil's viscosity, if anything it improves your oil performance by giving it clean metal to lubricate.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

I used Auto-Rx in two vehicles, and about 500 miles into the cleaning phase things were changing in a good way. Tomorrow, I do treatment #3 on my oil burning Saturn. It has been about 30,000 miles since I did the initial two cleanings. My strategy has been to use LC20 in-between Auto-RX cleanings to keep deposits at bay. I also have religiously used Fuel Power (FP 60) in every piece of gas operated equipment for years. I get easy starts on power equipment, stable gas, and my car has a smooth idle. Looking forward to using FP3000. I have read good things.

 

[Mystic]

Personally myself I have pretty much concluded that about the only product I need besides ordinary motor oil, transmission fluid, etc., is Auto-RX. With one product that is relatively safe you can clean an engine on the inside and keep it clean, clean transmissions, tranfer cases, differentials, power steering units.

Anymore besides Auto-RX about all I use is some fuel system cleaner every 3000 miles (Regane or Techron) and I think there may be some value in some of the coolant additives like Bar's Leak. And I am not entirely sure about the need for fuel system cleaners although Regane seems to have some effect and better safe then sorry.

Actually, if you change the oil with reasonable intervals and use good quality oil, you could drive a car or truck a very long time with no additives of any kind. After you have a few hundreds of thousands of miles on the engine an Auto-RX cleaning could be useful. I am not a big fan of using supplements and Auto-RX is the one product that I really believe in. The vast majority of all of that other stuff can stay on the shelf as far as I am concerned.

You talk about switching to Amsoil oil. With reasonable change periods your engine might stay plenty clean on the inside using Amsoil. Or you could use a maintenance dose of Auto-RX just to be safe. You might never need to do an Auto-RX cleaning, at least until you had a lot of miles.

My advice is to stay away from these strange oil supplements unless knowledgeable people at this web site have tested the stuff. For a long time it seemed like somebody was always coming out with some product like Slick50, or whatever. And a lot of the companies that came out with this stuff were fined for false advertising. If you use Amsoil motor oil what more can you do to take care of your vehicle? Dumping some strange concoction in there with the oil is not going to do you any good. I consider Auto-RX to be a truly good product. To be honest I am not completely sure of the fuel system cleaners. In fact, I think Frank has come out with some sort of fuel system cleaner which I have not used.

You can use this website to try to find out the best motor oil to use. And the best oil filters, etc.

 

[va3ux]

Quote:

---

va3ux, so you believe that I should stay away from additives all together...interesting, and...confusing. Anyone else with more good info for me to chew on?

---

"Interesting and confusing" is exactly what it all is. You just have to be careful not to follow or get caught up in crowd mentality. That happens here as it does in any venue or area of interest. Don't start dumping bottles of this, that and the other thing into your crankcase just because 30 other people say they are - without some sort of evidence that there's a definite benefit to it. Or at the very least, that there isn't some sort of risk.

There was a post on here early last year where a guy posted a picture of an oil filter plugged up with a slimey jelly-like material. The engine was new but it had failed due to loss of lubrication. He said that in addition to starting with some fairly robust oil, he'd also added (from memory)LC20, maybe ARX plus some other additive with moly or zinc or both. His intention was good : he wanted to provide all the protection he could, from what he'd learned here. The result was a huge clash in additive chemistry that caused additive drop-out. Admittedly this sort of thing doesn't get reported very often. But it is an example of what can happen.

 

[va3ux]

Quote:

---

So additional Moly and boron wont help to reduce wear on an older engine?

---

Oh, it definitely might ! BUT, do you know that you have a 'higher than normal wear problem' that even needs correcting in the first place ? If not, your first step is get one or two UOAs done on the engine to see what the wear numbers actually are. Once that is done, and if a problem actually exists, your next step would be getting advice on how to resolve it. Do you need more moly ? More boron ? More zinc ? Which one, and how much ? And from what source (product) ? How much should you add before you risk screwing up the existing additive package in the oil ? Or do you just need a different motor oil with a different additive package ? I couldn't answer these questions. So I'd be seeking advice from Terry Dyson or Molakule or perhaps someone else with the same engine that had successfully corrected the same problem.

At times BITOG sort of reminds me of a health food store with lots of counter clerks and self 'educated' customers present, but the truly knowledgeable owner is only present occasionally. You can walk into that store every day of the week and get totally different advice on what pills to take depending on which student is behind the counter that day. No testing or diagnosis or analysis is done, yet they freely recommend supplements. No thought or concern about whether the supplement they've just recommended will have an adverse reaction with something else you're taking.