Larger Oil Filters....Fact or Fiction?
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Patman
Staff member
What I really need to do is see if Purolator will mail me a copy of their new catalog! Then I
can look in the back and study the specs on all the different filters.
can look in the back and study the specs on all the different filters.
Patman
Staff member
I emailed Purolator last week and asked them to mail me a copy of their oil filter catalog, and my wife phoned me a short while ago to say that it arrived at the house! Woohoo!
They sent it via Purolator courier too.
I heard that Purolator started making oil filters first, and started the courier company later, out of a need for them to easily ship their oil filters around. I wonder if this is true. The courier company has certainly taken off for them, it probably makes then ten times the revenue that their oil and air filters make them.
They sent it via Purolator courier too.
I heard that Purolator started making oil filters first, and started the courier company later, out of a need for them to easily ship their oil filters around. I wonder if this is true. The courier company has certainly taken off for them, it probably makes then ten times the revenue that their oil and air filters make them.
It is true that a big full flow filter will work better than a small full flow filter at the same volume. It still won't clean oil but it will come closer. You can take a big full flow filter put it on a remote mount run hoses to it and throttle the flow througha .035 orifice like Mazda did with their secondary filter on some of the Ford and Mazda diesels. It will come even closer to cleaning oil. The following might be of interest:
Title: Don't Bypass Bypass Filters
Author: Gelinas, Tom
Journal: Fleet Equipment Vol: 14 Iss: 7 Date: Jul 1988 pp. 39-41
Abstract:
According to some estimates, 60% of the potential causes of engine wear and failure can be eliminated by a well-designed and properly applied filtration system. Cummins Engine Co. recommends that both a bypass filter and a full-flow filter be used. A bypass filter shunts 10% of the total oil pump output through a filter and then back to the sump, bypassing the engine. Because this filter has high-pressure differential and low flow rate, it can filter out fine particles in the 5-micron range. In contrast, a full-flow filter has a low-pressure differential and filters out only large particles in the 40 micron to 60 micron range. However, the full-flow filter is located so that all of the oil must flow through it before reaching the bearings. The combination of these 2 filter types gives double protection against wear. Studies at the Cummins Technical Center indicate that wear can be reduced up to 91% by using a bypass filter in combination with a full-flow filter.
Ralph
Title: Don't Bypass Bypass Filters
Author: Gelinas, Tom
Journal: Fleet Equipment Vol: 14 Iss: 7 Date: Jul 1988 pp. 39-41
Abstract:
According to some estimates, 60% of the potential causes of engine wear and failure can be eliminated by a well-designed and properly applied filtration system. Cummins Engine Co. recommends that both a bypass filter and a full-flow filter be used. A bypass filter shunts 10% of the total oil pump output through a filter and then back to the sump, bypassing the engine. Because this filter has high-pressure differential and low flow rate, it can filter out fine particles in the 5-micron range. In contrast, a full-flow filter has a low-pressure differential and filters out only large particles in the 40 micron to 60 micron range. However, the full-flow filter is located so that all of the oil must flow through it before reaching the bearings. The combination of these 2 filter types gives double protection against wear. Studies at the Cummins Technical Center indicate that wear can be reduced up to 91% by using a bypass filter in combination with a full-flow filter.
Ralph
I have a 1977 Pontiac Grand Prix that uses AC PF44 oil filter. This is a small, very short oil filter for a 301 cu-in V8 with 5 qts of oil circulating through it. There is room for a longer filter. Does anyone know of a longer AC Delco or WalMart Supertech that can replace the PF44? Thanks in advance.
Patman
Staff member
Yes! I had a 98 Formula which specified the PF44 filter, and I always ran a longer filter, which was the PF58, or a Mobil 1 M1-206. You could also run a K&N HP2006 as well, or the Purolator L20123 (or PL20123)
Attn Patman: I decided to try the forum instead of e-mail this time. Today I went to Discount Auto Parts and found the PureONE's on sale for $4.94 USD until the end of the month. The real news is that I studied the Pure catalog for prolly 45 minutes and I think I've found a bigger filter for the Honda/Acura. It seems the PL24458 is the same as the PL14459 only .98" longer. The flow rate is 3 GPM (same), the bypass is at 8-10 psi (same), the thread is the same, O.D. is the same, the gasket is the same, and the length is 4.01" to 3.03" (or VERY close to that). On the box it states "Replaces: Honda 15400-PH1-004" I think the standard OEM for my cars, and maybe yours, is 15400-PH1-003. My question: Am I missing anything? Does this sound like it will work? I've got plenty of room to use this filter, in fact it may be better since it's an inch longer and looks like it will be even easier to get the filter wrench on. I sure like the idea of 33% more media, unless they just put the same amount of media in a bigger can!
Patman
Staff member
According to the 2002 Purolator catalog though, the L14459 has a bypass setting of 12-15psi, so I would be worried running the L24458 with it's 8-10psi setting, as it seems to me the filter would bypass more often. Otherwise it would be a perfect filter to use!
You got me there. That's the one thing I didn't check, the DATE on the catalog! The one I looked at definately said 8-10 for both. Hmmm....
Patman
Staff member
If the older versions of the L14459 had different bypass settings, who knows what I might have sitting in my closet, as one of the Purolators I bought was at a hardware store that rarely sells auto stuff, so this filter is probably 4-5 years old. It's in the old style Purolator Premium Plus box.
Does this mean that the filter will be in bypass anytime the oil pressure is over 8-10 or 12-15 psi? If so, it would seem that cruising down the highway at 3500-4000 rpm for 1500 miles, you'd be in almost constant bypass and not actually filtering any oil! Maybe I just don't get it. Help me!! I'm a oil rookie!
Hey Patman, I just noticed that all the Purolator numbers you posted above start with L and not PL. Aren't L's the standard Pure's and the PL's the PureONE's?
Patman
Staff member
Yes, the PL ones are PureONEs and the L ones are the regular filters. In the book it only lists the L filters, but the PL ones would have the same specs. I doubt that every single filter listed in the book has a PureONE version though, probably only about 50% of them do.
As far as the bypass setting goes, I'm pretty sure I've got it right, but I'm a bit confused also. I think I'll start a new thread asking that question.
As far as the bypass setting goes, I'm pretty sure I've got it right, but I'm a bit confused also. I think I'll start a new thread asking that question.
Ok. The catalog I used had the PL numbers listed and I never looked to see if they also listed the L's. It would make sense that like numbers would have like spec's, but now I'm wondering.
F.Y I. Nominal Oil pressure for most Honda's at normal operating temp is 10 psi at idle, 50 psi at 3000rpm, and the idiot light should come on below 4.8 psi.
MolaKule
Staff member
At idle, one should have at least 15.2 psi to a bearing in order to force out oil against atmospheric pressure, which is of course, 14.7 psi. You always need a pressure differential of at least 0.5 psi to go against atmospheric pressure.
[ September 09, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
[ September 09, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Hmm, Seems to me that the 14.2PSI number only means something if you are pumping from and area in a vacuum to an area under atmospheric pressure. Since in this case both sides are the same, they should have no effect.
Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 PSIA at sea level, A standing for absolute.
0 on an oil pressure gauge is 0 PSIG, G standing for Gauge, Gauge indicates differential pressure from atmospheric pressure, so to convert PSIG to PSIA, you add 14.7, so 0 PSIG = 14.7 PSIA So, if you need .5 PSI above atmospheric, you need .5 PSIG, not 15.2.
The amount of pressure needed is actually related to load, viscosity, and clearance and surface area of the bearing and is different in each application.
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