Lamborghini Murcielago

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Originally Posted By: JoeyM
what are the advantages for running a thinner oil?

fuel economy? the car is rated at 9mpg city, so i dont think it matters much to me.

hp? again, if i was beating on the car and wanted every last hp, i think i would be concerned about the oil temps and want a thicker oil.

less wear on startup? this i wonder about too, because if u read the ferrari chat thread that was blasting AEHaas, there is a ferrari mechanic on there that said in 30 years of wrenching on ferrari's he never saw wearing of parts due to failure of the oil. i also doubt too, that even if i own this car for my entire lifetime, it probably will never reach even 75k miles.

so forgive my ignorance, as i stated earlier, i am no oil expert, i am just learning here.

but y again do i want a thinner oil?


Joey, thin oil IS thick oil at a few degrees cooler operating temp.

The oil's visc is stated at +212f, which is to be considered normal operating temp. About 20 degrees cooler changes the oil's visc a full grade.

Get used to the the technical units for visc, it is usually measured in centi-strokes (cSt). A "regular" 30 weight oil is 10cSt at +212f/100c, that oil is much thicker if you don't reach operating temp. It effectively becomes a 40 (12 to 15 cSt) or 50 weight if you are just cruising, or taking short trips.

I believe an exotic car is likely set-up to cool oil quite effectively, so this effect may be exaggerated if you drive it moderately.

It's hard to dispute the result of DrHass' UOAs. He compared directly to a friend's similar car on spec Shell Helix Ultra 5w-50 and got lower wear on 5w-20 Motorcraft.

A lot of fanbois here have little more content to add to the site than to regurgitate "use ONLY the oem spec oil", but they banter on constantly. DrHass is on the far extreme of the scale from them, a brave position to be in.

Another thing to consider is the most modern and effective additives used now allow a thinner oil to be used while keeping wear in check.
 
Wow nice cars. If you dont mind me asking what do you do for a living.

That lambo is a sexy beast

You wouldnt happen to have a Supra hanging out around there also would you lol.
 
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Let's take a step back even further: Why do you want any oil other than the factory oil?
wink.gif


No oil will give you any more than slight gains here and there. If that's not convincing for you, stick with what Lamborghini recommends.


Honestly, I was googling Murcielago oil change more to find tips on the procedure as I had never done it before. It was then when I saw Dr. Haas's post (and this forum) and I started reading.

I found it pretty interesting, but probably the main motivation for me to pick a different oil was convenience. It's much easier for me to drive down the street and buy M1, then it is for me to find and order Agip.


Once I started reading on here though I found Dr. Haas's articles to be well written and very convincing. Then I read the arguments from his detractors and just became more confused.

Like I said I am no oil expert at all, and if I never found this site, it would just be Agip factory fill for me.


BUT, I am smart enough to know I don't know everything, and if there is a real advantage out there I would be amiss not to seek it out.
 
Originally Posted By: crazycrak
Wow nice cars. If you dont mind me asking what do you do for a living.

That lambo is a sexy beast

You wouldnt happen to have a Supra hanging out around there also would you lol.


^^2nd on the Supra. It`s on my dream car list!
 
Originally Posted By: crazycrak
Wow nice cars. If you dont mind me asking what do you do for a living.

That lambo is a sexy beast

You wouldnt happen to have a Supra hanging out around there also would you lol.



Thanks! I don't have a Supra, the only other fast car that I have not in the pics is a C5 Z06.


As for my occupation, RI is a very very small state. I would rather not put it up here, as people at my work do not know about my cars. I am fairly young, and I can only afford these cars cuz I buy them used and depreciated. I make decent money, and my wife shares the passion and similarly makes decent money, and most importantly for the time being we have no kids.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeyM
Honestly, I was googling Murcielago oil change more to find tips on the procedure as I had never done it before. It was then when I saw Dr. Haas's post (and this forum) and I started reading.

I found it pretty interesting, but probably the main motivation for me to pick a different oil was convenience. It's much easier for me to drive down the street and buy M1, then it is for me to find and order Agip.


Once I started reading on here though I found Dr. Haas's articles to be well written and very convincing. Then I read the arguments from his detractors and just became more confused.

Like I said I am no oil expert at all, and if I never found this site, it would just be Agip factory fill for me.


BUT, I am smart enough to know I don't know everything, and if there is a real advantage out there I would be amiss not to seek it out.

There probably is a real advantage to be sought and found. It just will probably be small.
wink.gif


The factory oil is specified for a wide range of conditions. If you drive in a narrower range of conditions, you can probably find an oil that is better suited and will perform better.

That said, the advantage will be small: an MPG here, a few HP there, slightly longer engine life. When you read opinions from people like Dr. Haas and Mitch Alsup, you are hearing the perspective that those small advantages are important. When you hear from their detractors, especially ones like Ferrari techs who say they've never seen an oil-related failure, you're hearing the idea that the factory oil works just fine. Two sides of the same coin.

It's entirely up to you whether slight advantages would be worth your time to investigate. We on BITOG can speculate and help you guide your search, but you will not know unless you experiment.

Now, if it's convenience you're after, that's a much easier thing to pin down. Mobil 1 0w-40 and Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 should be available in most stores and should work well for you. Again, there's no way to know for sure until you try, and you would probably do well to monitor it with oil analysis, but either one of those oils is probably a safe bet.

Does any store near you carry Motul products, by chance? Motul has a few products that should also work well.
 
No doubt M1 oils, PP or PU will serve 99% of the engines on the street as well as the Euro oils will.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeyM

...Once I started reading on here though I found Dr. Haas's articles to be well written and very convincing. Then I read the arguments from his detractors and just became more confused. ...


You know he posted in this thread, right?
wink.gif


-Dennis
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: JoeyM
what are the advantages for running a thinner oil?

fuel economy? the car is rated at 9mpg city, so i dont think it matters much to me.

hp? again, if i was beating on the car and wanted every last hp, i think i would be concerned about the oil temps and want a thicker oil.

less wear on startup? this i wonder about too, because if u read the ferrari chat thread that was blasting AEHaas, there is a ferrari mechanic on there that said in 30 years of wrenching on ferrari's he never saw wearing of parts due to failure of the oil. i also doubt too, that even if i own this car for my entire lifetime, it probably will never reach even 75k miles.

so forgive my ignorance, as i stated earlier, i am no oil expert, i am just learning here.

but y again do i want a thinner oil?


Joey, thin oil IS thick oil at a few degrees cooler operating temp.

The oil's visc is stated at +212f, which is to be considered normal operating temp. About 20 degrees cooler changes the oil's visc a full grade.

Get used to the the technical units for visc, it is usually measured in centi-strokes (cSt). A "regular" 30 weight oil is 10cSt at +212f/100c, that oil is much thicker if you don't reach operating temp. It effectively becomes a 40 (12 to 15 cSt) or 50 weight if you are just cruising, or taking short trips.

I believe an exotic car is likely set-up to cool oil quite effectively, so this effect may be exaggerated if you drive it moderately.

It's hard to dispute the result of DrHass' UOAs. He compared directly to a friend's similar car on spec Shell Helix Ultra 5w-50 and got lower wear on 5w-20 Motorcraft.

A lot of fanbois here have little more content to add to the site than to regurgitate "use ONLY the oem spec oil", but they banter on constantly. DrHass is on the far extreme of the scale from them, a brave position to be in.

Another thing to consider is the most modern and effective additives used now allow a thinner oil to be used while keeping wear in check.
How are the cars driven?
 
I could take your car out and top end it about 60 miles from where I live. You want to know what the highest top speed in 4th gear my 2006 4 cyl Toyota pickup is ??? probably not.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeyM
what are the advantages for running a thinner oil?


In a nutshell--less heat in the engine leads to longer life. This overall postulate works so long as the oil retains a sufficient film strength and metal to metal contact is avoided. The other major job of oil is to carry heat away from the lubricated surfaces.

Thinner oils flow faster, and cary more heat away. However if you get to the point where thinner oils are not carrying away more heat, you have reached the point where the film strength is insufficient. A reasonable amount of caution is in order.

Finally, thinner oils come up to pressure faster at startup, lubricating the critical main bearings. The engine will start easier (crank over), oil pressure and flow begins faster, and you can rip the engine a lot sooner than with thicker oils.

All of this hovers under the caveat that you don't go too low in grade. So, what is too low--this is what the oil temperature gauge is for. Also, keep notes.

Quote:

but y again do i want a thinner oil?


In my opinion, you want to use the thinnest oil that has the lowest operating temperature under the highest stress that you apply to the car; under the second caveat that this light oil does not get burned off any faster than the recommended grade oil. If you change the stress levels yo apply to the car, your oil temperature gauge will tell you when to quit appllyinig stress or when to go to a higher weight oil.

My F355 has just past 60K miles and 5K of those have taken place on road race tracks. It still runs perfectly, starts on the first turn of the key. Were this car to never see the track(s) again, it would be using 10W-30 Redline Oil. I have used RL 10W-30 oil on race tracks in the midst of Texas heat running within 2 seconds of the lap record for 30 minutes at a tme. Even after all this (ab)use, the car burns no oil (amount not measureable on dipstick in 3000 mile change intervals.)
 
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup

My F355 has just past 60K miles and 5K of those have taken place on road race tracks. It still runs perfectly, starts on the first turn of the key. Were this car to never see the track(s) again, it would be using 10W-30 Redline Oil. I have used RL 10W-30 oil on race tracks in the midst of Texas heat running within 2 seconds of the lap record for 30 minutes at a tme. Even after all this (ab)use, the car burns no oil (amount not measureable on dipstick in 3000 mile change intervals.)


thanks for the detailed answer.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeyM
I found it pretty interesting, but probably the main motivation for me to pick a different oil was convenience. It's much easier for me to drive down the street and buy M1, then it is for me to find and order Agip.


You can order AGIP from their website in less time it would take to drive to the local store to buy M1.
 
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
You can order AGIP from their website in less time it would take to drive to the local store to buy M1.


True, he can order it in few seconds but to have the oil in his hands to do an oil change with take several days is he choose ground shipping, or he can pay much more for next day delivery. While it only take him few minutes to go to local store and have M1 to change oil whenever he wants from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM 7 days a week.
 
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
Originally Posted By: JoeyM
I found it pretty interesting, but probably the main motivation for me to pick a different oil was convenience. It's much easier for me to drive down the street and buy M1, then it is for me to find and order Agip.


You can order AGIP from their website in less time it would take to drive to the local store to buy M1.



actually the main reason i never ordered it, was because i couldnt find it on their website.


the website is confusing. is this the correct one?

http://www.americanagip.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=21

i never found the "Agip Tecsint SL SAE 5W-40" on their website. did they change the name or is this something different?
 
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Originally Posted By: JoeyM
i see a lot of votes for rotella, mobil 1, redline...and i notice most picking the recommended weight.


If it were mine I'd have no qualms about using Rotella T6 5w40.

I'm using the T5 10w30 in my Chrysler.
 
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