Kia changed oil viscosity recommendations

[edyvw]

Yes, CAFE.
The EPA ruled that carmakers can only recommend the oil viscosity that was used for the fuel economy test.
Owner's manuals for other parts of the world still include the variety of viscosities vs climate.

NO!
ACEA A3 oils are minimum HTHS 3.5cP which means they are NOT energy conserving oils.
He already uses PPE 5W40. It carries most stringent approvals like BMW LL01, MB229.5, Porsche A40 (that approval includes Nordschleife track testing), VW 502.00. That oil is first fill in Ferrari. There is no 20W50 oil on par that oil.
Similar oil to this one are Castrol Edge 0W40, Mobil1 0W40FS.

 

[edyvw]

My stinger does have a oil cooler and that is a good point you made. I did email Kia service today. I'm waiting for a response. There has to be a reason that they eliminated recommending the heavier oils. And maintaining a specific oil temp operating range might be it.

Thing is that no 20W50 will meet requirements that A3 oils meet. I think that in absence of Hyundai/KIA approvals, they went A3 route as they know all A3 oils also carry numerous very stringent approvals like MB229.5 and BMW LL01.
Forget it. Use PPE or if you really want something special, go Castrol Edge 0W30.

 

[HoosierStinger]

Thing is that no 20W50 will meet requirements that A3 oils meet. I think that in absence of Hyundai/KIA approvals, they went A3 route as they know all A3 oils also carry numerous very stringent approvals like MB229.5 and BMW LL01.
Forget it. Use PPE or if you really want something special, go Castrol Edge 0W30.

So your recommendation is to stick with PPE 5w40 and accept the oil consumption? Is there a 5w50 or 10w50 that meets A3 requirements?

 

[blufeb95]

So your recommendation is to stick with PPE 5w40 and accept the oil consumption? Is there a 5w50 or 10w50 that meets A3 requirements?

There's Mobil 1 FSX2 5W-50, but you have to buy it by the quart, I don't think I'd waste money on anything that costs $10/qt to put in a Hyundai.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Now I'm at 40k miles and starting to notice some oil consumption. Currently I'm using Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40.

Around 1/4 to 1/3qt per 1k miles

What oils and viscosity have you used before the PP 5W-40?

Have you been keeping careful oil consumptopn records since new?

Some engines don't like certain brand oils, even if they are the same hot viscosity grade. Example: My Hayabusa use to burn Mobil 1 10W-40 m/c oil noticably, but no consumption seen with other 10W-40 m/c oils.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Pay ATTENTION what it says: ACEA A3.
That means HTHS 3.5cP or higher. Basically European oils. You can run Castrol Edge 5W30 A3 that was available in Wal Mart. You can run anything A3, Mobil1 0W40 etc.
But Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is excellent choice. Running 15W40 or 20W50 is step back!

The TSB doesn't say ACEA A3 is the only option.

 

[edyvw]

So your recommendation is to stick with PPE 5w40 and accept the oil consumption? Is there a 5w50 or 10w50 that meets A3 requirements?

Some 5W50 will be A3.
You have modified engine. Get oil you can cheaply access at Wal Mart.
Mobil1 5W40 FS, Mobil1 0W40FS, Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40, etc.
You could try Mobil1 15W50 available in Wal Mart.
It is not all about consumption, but oxidation, deposits, HTHS, additive package etc.
Don’t forget, higher HTHS, more resistance =more heat.

 

[aquariuscsm]

You could try Mobil1 15W50 available in Wal Mart

Good choice

 

[demarpaint]

I wonder if the high flow cats messed with back pressure causing oil use? I'd be probably be running a good XW40 synthetic oil in it.

 

[yowps3]

What i currently use.
A3 and LSPI quenching combined.
Not very common.

Didn't know they spec A3 oils for it, as the manual states 5w30 viscosity meeting ACEA A5 spec or above.

I'm guessing the upcoming ACEA A7 spec will be suitable.

 

[kschachn]

I'm not sure if UOA could provide any insight to oil consumption but my wear metals have always looked good. So the oil is doing its job in that respect. I wanting to know if more harm or good would happen if I moved up to a 5w50 in a attempt to reduce my oil consumption. Being that Kia originally said 20w50 was a acceptable viscosity to use.

No I meant that a $30 spectrographic analysis isn't the correct tool to discriminate whether one oil performs better than another or if one isolated oil has good wear protection.

And no engine is mechanically harmed by an oil with a higher HT/HS as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the expected starting conditions. Film thickness is what protects, not harms.

 

[yowps3]

The TSB doesn't say ACEA A3 is the only option.

View attachment 106849

LOL typical Hyundai/Kia ambiguity. It's the attention to detail, or lack thereof which holds them back.

 

[edyvw]

What i currently use.
A3 and LSPI quenching combined.
Not very common.

Didn't know they spec A3 oils for it, as the manual states 5w30 viscosity meeting ACEA A5 spec or above.

I'm guessing the upcoming ACEA A7 spec will be suitable.

There is no such thing as A3 or A5 and above. A5 doesn’t mean it is “better “ then A3, on contrary, protection wise, A3 is better choice.
This language can only be found in Hyundai/KIA manuals.
Also, 3.3TT should not have LSPI issues. But he is already using API SP oil, which is LSPI tested.
That Shell Helix 5W30 didn’t pass any LSPI test. SN Plus is not LSPI tested as far as I know. PPE he is using right now is repackaged Shell Helix 5W40 API SP.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

High flow cats ?! I guess your warranty is toast.

Just run a different brand oil, same grade.
If you are not racing/autocrossing,and you have a HP oil cooler, a 30 grade ACEA A3,B4 should be fine.
It is HTFS you need to maintain MOFT not KV100 viscosity.
The only API category I would worry about meeting with this car is Service "S"

Also a complex turbo engine has to have more sophisticated PCV than just a mechanical anti backfire pill valve. Is the catch can in the right place? I wouldn't have messed with the PCV.

- Ken

 

[suburbandoom]

It is well documented now that the 3.3T with a catless primary setup will burn oil. The most significant cases also had modified catbacks with little to no restriction to backpressure. As an owner for nearly four years, I've seen no mention of oil usage with HFC primaries. My own experience with HFC primaries, catless secondaries, and only some small Vibrant resonators has been just fine. No measurable loss from the sump with strict 6,000mi intervals. PP 5w30 for 12k, Castrol 5w40 for 12k and now using PPE 0w40.

What manufacturer did you select for the downpipes? Cell count?

 

[HoosierStinger]

High flow cats ?! I guess your warranty is toast.

Just run a different brand oil, same grade.
If you are not racing/autocrossing,and you have a HP oil cooler, a 30 grade ACEA A3,B4 should be fine.
It is HTFS you need to maintain MOFT not KV100 viscosity.
The only API category I would worry about meeting with this car is Service "S"

Also a complex turbo engine has to have more sophisticated PCV than just a mechanical anti backfire pill valve. Is the catch can in the right place? I wouldn't have messed with the PCV.

- Ken

Warranty is definitely toast. Full exhaust, intake, 1.5 bar ECU tune along with some other mods. Seems like Kia can't make up their mind on which oil viscosity to recommend because in the 2022 owners manual they like 5w30/40 & 10w30. Then in the 2023 OM they change again back to 5w30. I always look for the latest API rating of SP. PVC side OCC is definitely connected right and functioning properly.

Even if the warranty was still intact Kia would probably tell me that anything less than 1qt per 1k miles is "normal" and I'm not even consuming 1/2qt per 1k miles

It is well documented now that the 3.3T with a catless primary setup will burn oil. The most significant cases also had modified catbacks with little to no restriction to backpressure. As an owner for nearly four years, I've seen no mention of oil usage with HFC primaries. My own experience with HFC primaries, catless secondaries, and only some small Vibrant resonators has been just fine. No measurable loss from the sump with strict 6,000mi intervals. PP 5w30 for 12k, Castrol 5w40 for 12k and now using PPE 0w40.

What manufacturer did you select for the downpipes? Cell count?

Well I'm pushing the engine pretty hard. I have the NGT 200 cell high flow primaries, catless secondaries and MBRP catback. I noticed oil consumption prior DP install but not at this rate.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Seems like Kia can't make up their mind on which oil viscosity to recommend because in the 2022 owners manual they like 5w30/40 & 10w30. Then in the 2023 OM they change again back to 5w30. high flow primaries, catless secondaries and MBRP catback. I noticed oil consumption prior DP install but not at this rate.

Why would that matter with all the mods you have? Forget the OM recs and run what is appropriate.
Just try a different brand I would run a 30 with high HTFS. OTW just deal with the usage.
I would recheck your redone PCV. Its gotta be more complex with turbocharging than a pill valve into a Valvecover or V tray. Also if the BOV is less aggressive it might help too.

 

[edyvw]

Why would that matter with all the mods you have? Forget the OM recs and run what is appropriate.
Just try a different brand I would run a 30 with high HTFS. OTW just deal with the usage.
I would recheck your redone PCV. Its gotta be more complex with turbocharging than a pill valve into a Valvecover or V tray. Also if the BOV is less aggressive it might help too.

Considering consumption, I would run Mobil1 0W40 or 5W40FS as it seems they are more readily available in Wal Mart then other A3 oils. Cheap, available, approved for MB, Porsche.

 

[PimTac]

Too bad the part about mods wasn’t included in the original post. That changes everything.

 

[HoosierStinger]

Why would that matter with all the mods you have? Forget the OM recs and run what is appropriate.
Just try a different brand I would run a 30 with high HTFS. OTW just deal with the usage.
I would recheck your redone PCV. Its gotta be more complex with turbocharging than a pill valve into a Valvecover or V tray. Also if the BOV is less aggressive it might help too.

Thanks for the suggestions I'll definitely do some more inspecting with the whole system