Kendall FS 5w-30 -6,405mi -2011 F150 Ecoboost 3.5L

[volk06]

Here is my third UOA on my ecoboost and second with the Kendall FS and used a MC FL-500s. I wanted to run this sample past 6K to see how it compared to beercan's UOA that he had with the elevated AL with the Kendall. His link here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2794803&#Post2794803
My AL did not rise with the longer run like his so not sure what is going on with his.

Blackstone comments: Fuel dilution improved in this sample. It was still present at 1.3%, though this better than the 2.8% we found last time. Hopefully it will stay below 2.0% in future samples. Wear increased, mainly due to the longer oil run. As you can see, iron is the one metal that will track most directly with miles, so it's fine. The other metals should stay low and they did. Insolubles were nice and low at 0.3% and this shows excellent oil filtration. No anti-freeze was found. Silicon held steady, showing excellent air filtration. The TBN read 1.5,good. At 23,379 miles, your truck is doing well!

I can believe the less fuel in this sample but there is definitely some fuel in the oil as i could smell it, the flash point was higher but the viscosities were also lower so I'd assume some shearing with a little bit fuel dilution. I still have some life left in the oil as the TBN did not drop.
I could probably be able to get by with a conventional oil for the miles but I will not use a conventional due to the twin turbos and direct injection. Call me paranoid or wasteful but I want to give my turbos best chance for a long life without coking or problems. My wear rates on a per mile basis did go up a very minuscule amount - not enough to make a difference. I will run the next sample to 6500mi again but that might be quite a while as I will be driving my Taurus to work and the truck will be in the garage. More than likely will hit the time limit before the miles for my warranty. I refilled with more kendall FS and a motorcraft filter.

Code:


OIL Motorcraft 5w-20 Kendall FS 5w-30 Kendall FS 5w-30

MILES IN USE 5,077mi 5,728mi 6,405mi

MILES 11,235 16,963mi 23,379mi

SAMPLE TAKEN 02/16/2012 06/18/12 12/8/12

MAKE UP 0 0 0



ALUMINUM 8 5 5

CHROMIUM 1 1 1

IRON 19 17 24

COPPER 36 23 27

LEAD 0 2 0

TIN 0 0 0

MOLYBDENUM 59 67 57

NICKEL 1 0 1

MANGANESE 9 9 13

SILVER 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 68 85

BORON 109 78 47

SILICON 24 17 17

SODIUM 5 4 4

CALCIUM 2156 2168 2441

MAGNESIUM 10 11 11

PHOSPHORUS 646 657 700

ZINC 582 730 663

BARIUM 12 2 0



INSOLUBLES 0.2% 0.3% 0.3%

WATER 0% 0% 0%

FLASHPOINT ºF 335 300 340

SUS VIS 210ºF 48.2 51.5 50.7

cSt @ 212ºF 6.73 7.74 7.48

Fuel 1.0 2.8 1.3%

TBN NA 1.5 1.5

 

[Danh]

While wear metals don't look bad, the oil seems to be really beaten up. This oil out of the bottle has a flashpoint of 455F and a 212F cst of 11.1. Doesn't seem right that 1.3% fuel would reduce the flashpoint that much. It's also sheared down to less than a 0w/20.

Don't have a solid suggestion, but you may want to try a different synthetic, maybe Pennzoil Ultra or M1 EP. I sure woudn't go beyond 5,000 miles between changes.

 

[dnewton3]

Interesting.

Will really like to see the long term progression of the history here. Please stay the course and stick with the lube/filter combo, using approximately the same OCIs, so that we can see some data development.

Of interest to you and all the rest of us is how the fuel will likely move up/down with each OCI. I suspect there is going to be variation in this characteristic just as any other (wear metals, insols, vis, etc). We know that DI engines typically have more fuel; just a trait that comes with the territory. The real quesiton is this: does this higher fuel level result in higher wear or is it simply coincidental? (Causation or correlation?). And, even if there is more fuel, what level of fuel would directly attribute to a shift in wear? I think these things are not really known yet, at least to the public. Not enough data yet (at least in my logs) to make this decision. Your fuel has never peaked over 3%; the other UOA you linked had fuel over 5%. Perhaps there is a "danger zone" somewhere in between????? WE NEED MORE DATA! Post up UOAs, all you EcoBoost owners! What we might find as an interesting indicator is the fuel dilution may be the most important thing to wear, and that may or may not be dependent upon the OCI duration. Each individual truck may have some contribution rate unique to its own operational and environmental cycle; don't really know yet.

I have a theory here, but I want to be clear that this is total presumption and speculation on my part so far ...
I wonder if these engines need to be worked hard, to burn off the fuel and to lower contribution rates? It's not as preposterous as it sounds. Some of the recent diesel "regen" engines see higher fuel when lightly loaded; results in some fuel dilution. The harder they are worked, the less regens they see, and the lower the fuel contamination. While not the same contributing reason (obviously no DPF on the EcoBoost engine) perhaps there is some "resultant" effects that are similar? Perhaps the EcoBoost does not burn off the fuel as well if not worked hard? I, like many, have seen the Ford promotional videos showing the real-world testing of the EcoBoost being used in the logging fields, the trailer-towing at 100mph, etc. In all it's use, that truck was really used pretty heavily; I doubt it was babied much. And the tear-down looked pretty good. However - admittedly - we never saw any UOAs from that engine; how would we know what is "normal" for fuel dilution? Again - complete speculation on my part at this point; just thinking out-loud so to speak. I only mention this because Volks fuel dilition is a lot lower than BeerCans; there must be some explanation behind the differences. Could it be that useage factors affect fuel dilution, and that harder is actually "better" in the long term?

Also, Cu is higher than I might have expected to see, but since it's a newer engine to all of us, this may be "normal" we we don't recognize it yet. After 23k miles and a few OCIs, this cannot be "break in" Cu. It may just be that "normal" Cu for the Ecoboost is higher than what we're used to seeing.

So I understand your decision to stay the course with the lube; just keep it up and stay consistent so we can get good data from it. Looking forward to the lifecycle develpment here!

 

[volk06]

I agree the CU is higher that what I would call normal in a typical UOA. I just hope that these higher numbers dont correlate to a shortened engine life due to bearings wearing out. Mine also has an oil cooler. Could this also be a source of the CU?

Dave - I agree on the being worked hard theory a possibility. Here is another thing Beercan's fuel number was achieved using a HPLC machine where blackstone just uses an estimation method with the flashpoint, which, if I were to chose I'd take the HPLC test to be more accurate than an estimation.

 

[jimbrewer]

May I ask where you were on the Intelligent Oil Monitor? I have a 3.7L and I'm wondering how well it tracks real life. I too have smelled a distinct raw gasoline odor while checking the dipstick. Very short trips are the norm for me.

I agree that you are close enough to spent to not extend your oil change interval. And yeah, it was pretty average life considering it was synthetic. Maybe truck will like another brand better.

 

[getnpsi]

You think on this engine with this provided data so far a 5w-20 synthetic, like from pennzoil wouldn't get "beaten down" as much as the kendall 5w-30 OP used twice? My uncle has this same truck and i advised him to go up to a 30 weight because of our climate and turbos, now i wonder.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: getnpsi
You think on this engine with this provided data so far a 5w-20 synthetic, like from pennzoil wouldn't get "beaten down" as much as the kendall 5w-30 OP used twice? My uncle has this same truck and i advised him to go up to a 30 weight because of our climate and turbos, now i wonder.


The ecoboosts are spec'd for 5w30, not 5w20. If you looked at the link I provided Pennzoil Ultra got beaten up just as bad.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
May I ask where you were on the Intelligent Oil Monitor? I have a 3.7L and I'm wondering how well it tracks real life. I too have smelled a distinct raw gasoline odor while checking the dipstick. Very short trips are the norm for me.

I agree that you are close enough to spent to not extend your oil change interval. And yeah, it was pretty average life considering it was synthetic. Maybe truck will like another brand better.


I had 34% OLM left. You shouldn't have to worry about your 3.7L and fuel since its not a Direct injected engine.

 

[JAG]

Blackstone calculated fuel percentage based on Open Cup Flashpoint and the Polaris UOA measured fuel percentage from a GC test, so the two data points are not directly comparable. That is a lot of fuel in this UOA and a shocking loss of viscosity. I'd pitty the poor person who wrongfully gets 5W-20 installed in this engine.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
May I ask where you were on the Intelligent Oil Monitor? I have a 3.7L and I'm wondering how well it tracks real life. I too have smelled a distinct raw gasoline odor while checking the dipstick. Very short trips are the norm for me.

I agree that you are close enough to spent to not extend your oil change interval. And yeah, it was pretty average life considering it was synthetic. Maybe truck will like another brand better.


I had 34% OLM left. You shouldn't have to worry about your 3.7L and fuel since its not a Direct injected engine.


3.7L is also direct injected, just not turbo. 34% implies an 8K oil change which seems a bit aggressive considering your numbers.

I wonder how much this gas dilution is vulnerable to test to test variation. I suspect a long drive at full temperature shortly before the sample is taken would serve to boil off the fuel fairly quickly. Perhaps its better to look at the viscosity change rather than flashpoint.

 

[dnewton3]

jimbrewer, welcome to the site. Unfortunately, you are incorrect.

Unless Ford has incorrectly listed their own specs, the 3.7L engine is not DI fueled; it is conventionally multi-port injected:

See here for trucks:
http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/engine/

It is also conventionally injected in the Mustang variant; see here:
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/specifications/engine/

 

[AITG]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Mine also has an oil cooler. Could this also be a source of the CU?



The 5.0 engine also has an oil cooler, but I don't know if it's the same one as the Eco.

It will be interesting to see if the difference between UOA results on EcoBoost vs. 5.0 translate into any difference in engine life.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
May I ask where you were on the Intelligent Oil Monitor? I have a 3.7L and I'm wondering how well it tracks real life. I too have smelled a distinct raw gasoline odor while checking the dipstick. Very short trips are the norm for me.

I agree that you are close enough to spent to not extend your oil change interval. And yeah, it was pretty average life considering it was synthetic. Maybe truck will like another brand better.


I had 34% OLM left. You shouldn't have to worry about your 3.7L and fuel since its not a Direct injected engine.


3.7L is also direct injected, just not turbo. 34% implies an 8K oil change which seems a bit aggressive considering your numbers.

I wonder how much this gas dilution is vulnerable to test to test variation. I suspect a long drive at full temperature shortly before the sample is taken would serve to boil off the fuel fairly quickly. Perhaps its better to look at the viscosity change rather than flashpoint.


34% left implies a 10K oil change. 6,400 + 3,400 = 9,800mi.

 

[jimbrewer]

Yep, you are right. Its apparently a weird approach to sequential port injection, which creates the confusion. I wonder how they get that kind of HP normally aspirated. Let's hope that "raw gas" smell is a figment of my overwrought imagination.

I'm kind of perplexed about Ford's Intelligent Oil Monitor reading. Clearly Ford reads Volk's usage as medium-light duty. It should be pretty easy to make a correct oil change interval call for middling use. Yet it seems not to be tracking all that well. What gives?

I notice Ford is kind of slippery about Oil change intervals. If you count the intervals implied by the extended maintenance plans they sell, there are something like 11 different recommendations under my manual. I notice that they seem to gravitate around 5K. For example, if you accidentally reset the Oil minder mid-change, you should default to a 5K interval.

I suppose its different if you have a couple of turbos to protect or if you are a higher mileage driver, but as a low mileage normally aspirated driver, if I pulled a succession of numbers like that, I think that I would resign myself to collecting oil change coupons from my dealer, save the cost of the oil analysis and start doing 5K oil changes instead of trying to squeeze out an extra 2K. At least it would be easy to remember.

 

[rossn2]

I just changed my 2011 F150 Ecoboost over to Amsoil OE 10w-30 from Pennzoil Platinum 10w-30. I do 5k mile OCIs, have not conducted any UOAs, and OLM was at 37 percent left. Currently, 25k miles on the truck, no issues..

 

[jimbrewer]

Based on Volk's experience, this may be one of the few engines that justifies such a conservative schedule. For a 5K change interval in a warm climate I don't see any reason not to take it in to Fast-Lane (Ford) on an el cheapo coupon for a Motorcraft semi-synthetic change. You get a quality oil and filter. You get your tires rotated which will save you money. You get a record of your oil change from Ford, which is good for warranty purposes. My Fastlane is an unbelievably slow oil lube place, but I gotta believe that's not the norm.

Ford for some reason allows any dealer to sell extended factory warranties to any buyer. the Ford ESP program. So there are on-line discounters. You might still be eligible. They run $850 or so for a "basic" 100K warranty. That's pretty competitive for any car, and for an Ecobeast that's probably money-good, statistically speaking. (It would look pretty bad for Ford if they charged a premium price for Ecobeast coverage, wouldn't it?). You could defray a considerable chunk of the expense by switching from Amsoil to MC.

 

[rossn2]

The Amsoil OE is $4 and change as Preferred customer. If Wally world would carry 10w-30 or 5w-30 MC oil in a 5 qt jug then I would use it..
First, and last time I took truck into the Ford dealer for oil change, they put 5w-20 in it and accidently swapped the oil fill cap from a 5w-30 to 5w-20 one. They have two racks side by side and the techs just throw the oil filler cap onto a table shared between two bays. I had to show the SERVICE MANAGER the ECOBOOST uses 5w-30 oil as stated in Owner's Manual. Then he tried to tell me 5w-20 wouldn't hurt anything. He backed off that statement when I said "Put it in writing!"
I'd rather roll around on the ground in 30 degree temps and change the oil myself than go thru the Ford Fast-Lane. Discount Tire rotates the tires for free too..

 

[jimbrewer]

I hear ya. Any time you take your car in there is always the possibility they make it worse. That's one reason why I resist the temptation to get early transmission fluid or coolant changes.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: rossn2
The Amsoil OE is $4 and change as Preferred customer. If Wally world would carry 10w-30 or 5w-30 MC oil in a 5 qt jug then I would use it..
First, and last time I took truck into the Ford dealer for oil change, they put 5w-20 in it and accidently swapped the oil fill cap from a 5w-30 to 5w-20 one. They have two racks side by side and the techs just throw the oil filler cap onto a table shared between two bays. I had to show the SERVICE MANAGER the ECOBOOST uses 5w-30 oil as stated in Owner's Manual. Then he tried to tell me 5w-20 wouldn't hurt anything. He backed off that statement when I said "Put it in writing!"
I'd rather roll around on the ground in 30 degree temps and change the oil myself than go thru the Ford Fast-Lane. Discount Tire rotates the tires for free too..


x2. The dealer tried putting 5w20 into my ecoboost. They said they didnt but the UOA sure looked like 5w20. I do the works package at a different local ford dealer but I bring in my own oil. cost $39 + my oil. It works out to be around $60 in the end but I get tire rotation, inspection, everything tested and a free wash. They also have no problems pulling my oil samples. Its convenient for record keeping and since I live in an APT. I do change the oil on the taurus myself when I'm back at the farm.

 

[jimbrewer]

Well, its probably not all that common, but with maybe a one half of one percent error rate, over the course of say, thirty oil changes during our ownership of a car, that's a significant chance of at least one screw up along the way. If its slightly out of spec oil and only once, likely no harm done. Likewise, a really catastrophic screw up would be either caught or paid for by the shop. Its the stuff in between that you have to worry about.

Of course, the error rate doesn't drop to zero just because we do it ourselves. Either way, its another reason to heed DNewton's advice to run the oil to the end of its service life.