Keep Your Old Car

[Passport1]

Your 'right to repair' is being undermined in surreptitous ways. No overt legislation yet that we can bark at but the result is just the same. Defeat this with your old vehicles. If you don't already have one, find one. Someday (maybe soon) basic transportation will become paramount and modern technology for the DIY owner an expensive Rubik's Cube.

I'll keep my pre-OBD2 compliant Volvo forever.

JR explains,

 

[Kurtatron]

in the same vein, it’s best to find an older car that will have good aftermarket support. If tech overloaded vehicles truly get so bad, people will turn to the aftermarket to avoid it. But if you have some obscure car that has no parts, what good will it do if it’s old?

 

[bullwinkle]

We need to figure out who is doing this garbage like Stellantis' Secure Gateway-and make sure they go out of business! Like CVTs, EV batteries, even GDI when incorrectly done-they're all time bombs basically waiting to go off...

 

[DougR]

I couldn't get quality parts for a 24-year-old vehicle that needed four motor mounts, valve cover gaskets, driver door actuator, rear bumper cover, broken side marker light, and cracked inlet air duct. Some of the parts are made in China; however they are low quality, and I realized several molded hoses which are not available were brittle and would break just to get to the inlet air duct. The interior was in great shape, however large portions of paint was peeled down to the primer due to the hot Arizona sun. Engine mechanical, transmission, suspension and tires were good, and the vehicle was rust free. I couldn't justify keeping the car when a buyer was willing to give me $2400 for it despite the issues it had. He took it to Mexico to be repainted and some of the issues repaired and then it would be worth up to $5000 in Mexico.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

We need to figure out who is doing this garbage like Stellantis' Secure Gateway-and make sure they go out of business! Like CVTs, EV batteries, even GDI when incorrectly done-they're all time bombs basically waiting to go off...

CVTs should be incredibly easy to rebuild if we could just get companies to provide the darn parts.

 

[daves87rs]

It’s going to happen whether we want it or not- get ready for it.

Rules to control newer cars, regulations to wipe out the old….

Wish i was wrong……

 

[SC Maintenance]

I agree, but its hard to keep a 30 year old, pre OBD car going as well if your driving it every day. If you can't get a ECU, or you can't get a distributor - same problem.

 

[Bladecutter]

We need to figure out who is doing this garbage like Stellantis' Secure Gateway-and make sure they go out of business!

You can work around the SGW's, it just takes a couple hundred bucks in parts, and diagnostic tools, and USB to OBDII adapters.

My 2022 Stelvio has the SGW in it.
So, when the car is due for an oil change service, there are two places in the car that need to be updated.

First one is in the gauge cluster, but that's the easy one to clear.
Turn the ignition to ON, and thenpress the accelerator to the floor, release, and then repeat two more times.
Then turn on the ignition, wait 60 seconds, and then turn the ignition back on, and the Change Oil Soon message will be gone.

But the second one is in the infotainment screen in the dashboard.
This is where the SGW module prevent you from gaining access to, because, someone might access the contacts in your phone without your permission, and prank call you mom at 11 pm on a Thursday night, right after Bingo at the Hall.

So here, you either have to buy an expensive scan tool, like an Autel, and then pay Monthly for the services to get Gateway Access to the Chrysler/FCA/Stellantis systems.
Or, you have to go low tech, and buy a device called an SGW Bypass module.
Then you have to fish around in the dashboard of your Stellantis product until you find the 2 connectors on the SGW module, disconnect them from the module, and then plug your SGW Bypass module into the plugs that you just finished removing.
Once that is done, you then connect the OBD to USB cable to your computer, fire up the enthusiast built program to connect to your car, and then you can hunt down the Reset Service Interval function in the program, and reset that service interval.

Now, luckily, you can do other stuff with that nifty program, if you want to.
Like if I wanted, I could use it on my wife's 2012 Abarth to install a TFT Dashboard from the 2017 and newer Abarths, or I could add paddle shifters, Auto High Beams, Lane Keep Assist, and Radar Cruise control to an Alfa that didn't come with them from the factory. Maybe I want to install a Limited Slip differential to a car that didn't come with one, and I want to make sure that the ABS and Traction Control systems are aware of the upgrade. I've got that covered.

Anyway, lots of great things can be done with a program like MultiECUScan.
It works on Alfas, FIATs, Lancias, a couple Jeep, Chrysler, and Dodge vehicles, and also Ducati's and MotoGuzzi's.

 

[Sedin26]

I agree, but its hard to keep a 30 year old, pre OBD car going as well if your driving it every day. If you can't get a ECU, or you can't get a distributor - same problem.

I found this with my 93 Tercel. It used to have many, many suppliers but it’s dried up over the last 5 years. Toyota has also stopped making critical parts.
My distributor died a few years back and it was either a junkyard OEM or junk aftermarket. I went for the used OEM but it wasn’t super easy to find.

 

[Exhaustgases]

It’s going to happen whether we want it or not- get ready for it.

Rules to control newer cars, regulations to wipe out the old….

Wish i was wrong……

And think real hard and long who will do that.

 

[daves87rs]

And think real hard and long who will do that.

Just have to follow the money…..

 

[Powerglide56]

Plenty of cheap parts for my 95 Geo Prizm around.

 

[daves87rs]

Plenty of cheap parts for my 95 Geo Prizm around.

Never thought I’d say i would miss those…..

 

[Powerglide56]

Only trouble is 1 out of 3 new parts are junk out of the box.

 

[Kira]

Q: Is there indeed a 'right to repair'?

Also, for what's it's worth, your rights don't mean anything if you don't exercise them.

So, aside from any plans or schemes to get the populations of the world to scrap old vehicles and replace with new, you must apply business viability stats to the parts and aftermarket industries.
How many people, expressed as a percentage of owners, actually did their own repairs...ever?
Now factor in the exacerbated stresses on the support industries....no parts makers here....big money financing big manufacturers off-shore....these new companies' absence of desire to fill smaller orders or simply larger, more current orders always receiving precedence.

It's sad for sure.

We don't demand simple vehicles.
There is no vehicle marketed with the words, "We'll keep parts available for the next 15 years"

 

[Bill7]

Your 'right to repair' is being undermined in surreptitous ways. No overt legislation yet that we can bark at but the result is just the same. Defeat this with your old vehicles. If you don't already have one, find one. Someday (maybe soon) basic transportation will become paramount and modern technology for the DIY owner an expensive Rubik's Cube.

I'll keep my pre-OBD2 compliant Volvo forever.

JR explains,

Not sure I understand the issue you're raising.

 

[Passport1]

Not sure I understand the issue you're raising.

Sure the concept is fairly simple. Manufacturers have a moral duty to provide owners and independent repair businesses with fair access to service information and affordable replacement parts. So you can fix your own stuff if you have the moxie. How long should this responsibility extend? We can quibble about that but it ought not end when the warranty expires or a new platform replaces an old model.

While there are no actual de jure statutes preventing this it is becoming the de facto situation. This is especially the case with proprietary software and sometimes things like transmission fluids.

None of the manufacturers want to produce simple, easy to repair vehicles anymore. Not a big enough monetary incentive. They set the hook and play us like a fish.

 

[Kurtatron]

I wish the US made it possible to live without a car. That would be my solution, if I could do it. But nope. Not as much as sidewalks in my small Georgia town.

 

[Kira]

In this age of cell phones, it's sad a true grassroots communications web didn't yield a less centralized car service culture.
I know insurance would be involved and it would effect price.
It took Ubers and Lyfts to link people's phones to payment methods to make it happen.
I took lots of funk taxi rides in Germany well before cell phones.

 

[Bill7]

Sure the concept is fairly simple. Manufacturers have a moral duty to provide owners and independent repair businesses with fair access to service information and affordable replacement parts. So you can fix your own stuff if you have the moxie. How long should this responsibility extend? We can quibble about that but it ought not end when the warranty expires or a new platform replaces an old model.

While there are no actual de jure statutes preventing this it is becoming the de facto situation. This is especially the case with proprietary software and sometimes things like transmission fluids.

None of the manufacturers want to produce simple, easy to repair vehicles anymore. Not a big enough monetary incentive. They set the hook and play us like a fish.

Thanks for the clarification.

Honda has really good parts availability for older vehicles. I have 2006/2007 Honda Odyssey's, and I can easily get nearly all the parts from Honda. I think Toyota also has equal or better parts availability for older vehicles.

But GM and Chrysler dealer's parts departments may not be able to order parts for older vehicles from what I've read.

I prefer to buy genuine OEM parts from brick and morter car dealerships that have parts departments that are selling the parts close to wholesale on the internet. OEM parts tend to last decade(s), but aftermarket parts don't seem to last very long for me.