Kalishnikov !!

[Astro14]

My M1A has the 22” barrel, and a walnut stock.

I‘m a bit of a traditionalist…

 

[WeyounDS9]

Agree to disagree. As an expert with both weapons, and own piles of each, the reliability nod definitely goes to the AK in extreme conditions. Keep in mind the looser tolerances and reciprocating bolt charging handle definitely allow it to operate longer in harsher environments sans regular cleanings. And with steel cased ammunition.

This is NOT the case with the very finicky AR platform. That's a fact, proven by history. US GIs are constantly maintaining and cleaning ARs. If you want your AR (or M4) to run, it must be cleaned constantly. And it must be fed only soft brass case ammo. Steel will jam it up every time. It's a very laboriously near daily ritualistic chore. Do you think our sandal wearing adversaries in 3rd world harsh environments (damp jungles, dusty deserts, ocean pirates, filthy urban decayed cities, etc.) have similar obsessives compulsive cleaning rituals? I can tell you they do not.

Charles I regularly ran my ARs w/o cleaning for 3000 rounds.
This includes at 9 F snow patrols and other demanding environments (ok I admit 9F was the exception not the rule)
I shoot steel exclusively.
One of my ARs has 22,000 rounds through it of Wolf Military Classic 62gr ( among the best steel case IMO) and I struggle to remember any malfunctions at all (the barrel did shoot out though)
I admit my ARs are all high end (LWRC, Sig516, BCM) and I use quality mags.
But I use economy ammo and I get almost no malfunctions at all in my fleet of ARs.

I did have a number of malfunctions back in the day (as in 10 years ago) when I combined entry level rifles with TUla 55gr ammo.

The other day I ran a buddies Ak, also high end, he told me 2000 USD price tag (supposedly, which I struggled to believe) and in only 180 rounds I had 4 double feeds.

In all fairness that was likely the fault of one the magazines, But this also illustrates how malfunction causes are often independent of the platform.. and even if the AK myth was correct you would still get malfunction via causes you cannot control no matter which rifle.
I had more malfunction with that rifle in one short range session than I had in the previous year of ARs.

I also noticed my course of fire was much slower with the AK due to the combination of a more involved mag change combined with lack of a bolt hold open device and the need to change the safety back and forth to reload (tactical reload not emergency reload)

Anytime I try to get back into AKs, there just seems to be no comparison.
I believe the reliability argument has probably gone out the window a decade and a half ago when competition forced AR manufacturers to be good or die.

I do run extended tip firing pins in all my ARs though to shoot that russian steel reliably. (except the DMR which only sees match ammo)

 

[billt460]

My M1A has the 22” barrel, and a walnut stock.

I‘m a bit of a traditionalist…

I like those too. This one is a Camp Perry National Match Edition

 

[BISCUT]

.308 loses a lot of gusto from 16" and would benefit from 18" for performance, range, and noise perspectives.

I prefer the Scout variant myself. That, and my FALs in 18" barrels, and I'm set for TEOTW or at least I'll make a impression at the coming breadlines.

I could be wrong but the M1A above looks like a Springfield Scout Squad which has an 18" barrel. In my experience with a few AR10's I've built, 18" is ideal. I think you may be thinking it is a 16" SOCOM but I could be wrong.

You are right though, chrony loads from mine (Noveske 18" barrel; Armalite 20" SS barrel; and An old Eagle Arms 20") 18" is the sweet spot.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

I could be wrong but the M1A above looks like a Springfield Scout Squad which has an 18" barrel. In my experience with a few AR10's I've built, 18" is ideal. I think you may be thinking it is a 16" SOCOM but I could be wrong.

You are right though, chrony loads from mine (Noveske 18" barrel; Armalite 20" SS barrel; and An old Eagle Arms 20") 18" is the sweet spot.

It's a SOCOM 16, stamped right on the receiver.

The other one in this thread is a National Match, full length competition model as it appears.

 

[BISCUT]

Sooo adding to the discussion...I have wanted a Tanker for a while. I have been fighting hard!! In my mind, I know it is a bad purchase as frankly, useless. 308 in the short barrel is not anything I could use. I just love the thing! It's pure cool factor.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-socom-16-rifles/m1a-tanker-308-rifle

 

[BISCUT]

It's a SOCOM 16, stamped right on the receiver.

The other one in this thread is a National Match, full length competition model as it appears.

Gotcha! I did't realize the SOCOM had the forward pic rail like the Scout Squad. SOCOM is too short for 308 IMHO anyway.

 

[thastinger]

I've got a couple of Yugo underfolders, great guns...but then I got into silencers and an AK is impossible to get quiet because of the gas ports, but I really like the 7.62x39 round...so I built myself an ARAK...AR platform which is chambered in 7.62x39 It took a little bit of work to get it right but it is flawless now and one of my fav guns to shoot.

 

[ammolab]

I just picked up 20+ pounds of 5.56 brass after a local police dept qualiications. I also found 15 mangled unfired rounds from rifle functions. Not sure how many live rounds they picked themselves…but LE AR rifles seem to give me pause in the ”reliability“ score.

 

[billt460]

It's a SOCOM 16, stamped right on the receiver.

The other one in this thread is a National Match, full length competition model as it appears.

 

[Astro14]

Sooo adding to the discussion...I have wanted a Tanker for a while. I have been fighting hard!! In my mind, I know it is a bad purchase as frankly, useless. 308 in the short barrel is not anything I could use. I just love the thing! It's pure cool factor.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-socom-16-rifles/m1a-tanker-308-rifle

Sooo - in all honesty, not every firearm I buy is for pure practicality.

Some, like a Glock 17, are purely practical.

Some, like an M1 Garand, are purely for fun. Sure, I want them to run perfectly, but they’re not going to be pressed into hunting, or self defense. I have better choices for practical uses.

 

[wpod]

Somebody should tell the Taliban that AKs are better battle rifles. Ever notice that when Afghanistan fell, almost all the best dressed Taliban were sporting M-4s? Only the scrubs still carried AKs. Maybe after being on the receiving end for 20 years they realized the value of accuracy in a battle rifle. And the futility of "pray and spray"?

People use the guns they can get. If our military issued bb guns to the troops that is what the troops would carry.

 

[wpod]

Sooo - in all honesty, not every firearm I buy is for pure practicality.

Some, like a Glock 17, are purely practical.

Some, like an M1 Garand, are purely for fun. Sure, I want them to run perfectly, but they’re not going to be pressed into hunting, or self defense. I have better choices for practical uses.

All my guns are for fun , hunting , pest control and protection from animals.

 

[billt460]

The Springfield "Tanker" is pretty much a SOCOM 16 without the optics base, and a Walnut stock. I have to say, Springfield got the gas system right on these guns. Mine runs like a Rolex on most any kind of .308 or 7.62 X 51 MM. So has every one I've come across.

You have to be careful with a lot of the "Tanker" M1 Garands. Many are conversions that have operational issues due to the shortened barrel. The M1 Garand "Tanker" was never really put into service. None were ever issued to tank companies, or anyone else for that matter in WW II.

A lot of them don't run right. You have to be careful who built them. Many are over gassed. Especially with modern high pressure .30-06 ammunition. Several have problems with bent op rods and the like.

 

[BISCUT]

Sooo - in all honesty, not every firearm I buy is for pure practicality.

Some, like a Glock 17, are purely practical.

Some, like an M1 Garand, are purely for fun. Sure, I want them to run perfectly, but they’re not going to be pressed into hunting, or self defense. I have better choices for practical uses.

I agree. I'm blessed with more than a few firearms I have a gorgeous SA Garand (original issue was the Pacific in WWII), a Scout squad, and an M1A loaded.

I do not like a 308 in a short platform. Much better choices out there like your 300 black out or my personal favorite, 6.8spc. Much greater efficiency out of a short barrel.

 

[billt460]

This is off the .308 AR Forum

Temp 72

Alt 5200

.................DSA SA58 16" bbl..........FN PBR XP 20" bbl

American Eagle .308Win 150gr FMJBT #AE308D

...........................2538................... ........2669

...........................2537................... ........2681

...........................2506................... ........2703

...........................2538................... ........2635

.....................Avg 2543.....................Avg 2663

....................SD......32.23................S D.......32.81

120 ft/sec difference



Federal .308Win 150gr Soft Point #308A

...........................2588................... ........2724

...........................2594................... ........2741

...........................2595................... ........2729

...........................2582................... ........2736

...........................2605................... ........2726

.....................Avg 2593.....................Avg 2731

....................SD........8.54................ SD........7.07

138 ft/sec difference



Barnaul .308Win 168gr FMJBT

...........................2424................... ........2554

...........................2388................... ........2515

...........................2455................... ........2507

...........................2379................... ........2505

...........................2399................... ........2518

.....................Avg 2409......................Avg 2520

....................SD......30.74................S D......19.92

111 ft/sec difference

 

[thastinger]

This is off the .308 AR Forum

Temp 72

Alt 5200

.................DSA SA58 16" bbl..........FN PBR XP 20" bbl

American Eagle .308Win 150gr FMJBT #AE308D

...........................2538................... ........2669

...........................2537................... ........2681

...........................2506................... ........2703

...........................2538................... ........2635

.....................Avg 2543.....................Avg 2663

....................SD......32.23................S D.......32.81

120 ft/sec difference



Federal .308Win 150gr Soft Point #308A

...........................2588................... ........2724

...........................2594................... ........2741

...........................2595................... ........2729

...........................2582................... ........2736

...........................2605................... ........2726

.....................Avg 2593.....................Avg 2731

....................SD........8.54................ SD........7.07

138 ft/sec difference



Barnaul .308Win 168gr FMJBT

...........................2424................... ........2554

...........................2388................... ........2515

...........................2455................... ........2507

...........................2379................... ........2505

...........................2399................... ........2518

.....................Avg 2409......................Avg 2520

....................SD......30.74................S D......19.92

111 ft/sec difference

I average 2480FPS from my AR10 with 20" barrel and DD Wave can on it, with 150gr pills. I use IMR3031 powder, CCI34 primers. I mostly use Hornady SP 150gr bullets, because I also hunt with the gun.

 

[BISCUT]

I average 2480FPS from my AR10 with 20" barrel and DD Wave can on it, with 150gr pills. I use IMR3031 powder, CCI34 primers. I mostly use Hornady SP 150gr bullets, because I also hunt with the gun.

Not any negativity but I'd like to ask why did you pick 150gr? I'm mostly target and I use a lot of SMK 168 and 175.

 

[thastinger]

Not any negativity but I'd like to ask why did you pick 150gr? I'm mostly target and I use a lot of SMK 168 and 175.

I hunt with it, 150Gr SP is plenty for that, and it shoots a little flatter since the bullet is faster. I made a typo above, it should have read 2840FPS

 

[BISCUT]

I hunt with it, 150Gr SP is plenty for that, and it shoots a little flatter since the bullet is faster. I made a typo above, it should have read 2840FPS

Good reason. 150's with a GameKing or an Accubond if you need something stouter will fill a freezer indeed.