Jumping on filter every other oil change bandwagon

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm still a little leery, here's why. Over the years I've removed several filters, all makes, including Purolator, Fram, Wicks, Napa, Hastings, Mobil 1, and a few others which had very little oil in them, from an engine that was just shut down. Imagine leaving a filter on that wasn't working properly for 2 OCI's?

Then again, since oil filter failure rates are miniscule, you're actually increasing the chances you'll stumble across a bad filter by changing more often. You could be replacing a perfectly good one with the rare bad one.

But pushing a filter too far, that's another matter entirely. If someone is doing normal 5k oci's extending a $3 Puro Classic to 10k is probably false economy and perhaps unwise as well.


That's the flip side of the discussion. Like I said I've seen plenty of filters that had very little oil in them and it had nothing to do with how they are positioned. The other thing is by not removing and dumping the oil in the filter you're leaving behind in some cases almost 20% of dirty oil, not counting what doesn't come out of the engine. I guess its just my old school way of thinking.

Maybe I'll try it but I'll remove the filter see if it actually has a good amount of oil, drain it, re-use it, making sure there are no leaks. I think that would satisfy me.


I agree was just playing "devils advocate" so to speak.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm still a little leery, here's why. Over the years I've removed several filters, all makes, including Purolator, Fram, Wicks, Napa, Hastings, Mobil 1, and a few others which had very little oil in them, from an engine that was just shut down. Imagine leaving a filter on that wasn't working properly for 2 OCI's?

Then again, since oil filter failure rates are miniscule, you're actually increasing the chances you'll stumble across a bad filter by changing more often. You could be replacing a perfectly good one with the rare bad one.

But pushing a filter too far, that's another matter entirely. If someone is doing normal 5k oci's extending a $3 Puro Classic to 10k is probably false economy and perhaps unwise as well.


That's the flip side of the discussion. Like I said I've seen plenty of filters that had very little oil in them and it had nothing to do with how they are positioned. The other thing is by not removing and dumping the oil in the filter you're leaving behind in some cases almost 20% of dirty oil, not counting what doesn't come out of the engine. I guess its just my old school way of thinking.

Maybe I'll try it but I'll remove the filter see if it actually has a good amount of oil, drain it, re-use it, making sure there are no leaks. I think that would satisfy me.


I agree was just playing "devils advocate" so to speak.


Me too! LOL

 

[Sayjac]

Went two oci's with a Bosch D+ 3323 at ~13.5k/20months on an Accord for the first time. Both oci's took the MM to 15%. Thought I'd try it especially with BD+'s 29g rated holding capacity. And contrary to best practice I did drain the filter and re-install, no leaks. The filter is oriented almost vertical thread end up orientation and when it is removed there's a substantial amount of oil that comes out when gasket contact is broken. Cut the filter open and will post pics in the near future, looks fine.

Replaced it with a P1 PL14610 which at this point I intend on running one oci.

As for Honda's owners manual/MM every other oci recommendation, no Honda dealers that I'm aware of follow that recommendation, they always change the oil and filter with an oil change. Having discussed this topic before, some Honda dealers service writers won't even acknowledge that such a recommendation exists at all. I called several and some totally denied that it is an owners manual or MM AB symbol recommendation. My thought is that one Honda consideration may be the ability to advertise lower overall maintenance costs. And, with the Honda A-02 rated at ~67@20um, it's likely that filter is only getting some semi decent efficiency by the second oci.

With some filters now rated to 15k and large holding capacity like the BD+'s and Ultra, two ocis seems to be a reasonable option. Also filter installation ease and or use of a fluid extractor could also be a factor in the decision. That said, with the cost of filters like P1 or lower end nitrile adbv filters being so reasonable, easy to understand those that prefer changing every oci too.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
changing the filter is convenient, easy and cheap. i don't see the point in going out of the way *not* doing it because its one less thing to worry about. as i get older, less worry, no matter the topic becomes very important.


Not true for many cars, because a good car has the underside of the engine protected by several plastic panels and in many cases the filter can only be changed from below. The underbody panels on my Volvo need a special tool and the car needs to be up on a lift to do the job without swearing.
There is no approved used oil disposal system in Germany, so DIY oil changes cost nearly as much as asking the equivalent of an Iffy lube place to do it for you using your own oil and top quality filter.
An oil only change costs me 20 mins (20 Euros at a good garage) and a full oil service costs me 40 mins, or one hour of garage time if they have trouble getting the filter off.
The only oil filters I trust are genuine made in Germany Volvo ones and they cost 15 Euros each. So a full oil service costs 35 Euros more.
Clean oil filters are bad news in efficiency terms, but I would only exceed the manufacturers recommended OFI with great caution, as different car engine manufacturers use different safety factors.
The only alternative filters I would think of using are Mann and Bosch, BUT only if they have made in Germany stamped on them as the quality control checks are far better.
Not sure what the life of an oil filter seal is, but for an El Cheapo orange can of death or UK Halfrauds special I would not leave one on for more than the recommended time interval for normal service.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: sir1900
So general question here: do you dump the used oil that's in the filter and then re-install it or do you just simply leave it and not touch it at all?


I'd leave the filter on. I highly doubt that Honda and others that recommend a 2 OCI use of the filter say in the Service Manual to remove the filter to dump the oil and re-install.


Never remove and drain a screw on oil filter, unless you bin it!
It's a real pity that the old element and can filters are not used with new engine designs, as they were perfect for allowing inspection and draining of the filter.

 

[webfors]

I would consider running two OCI's for a max of 15k on a filter designed for such use, i.e. Ultra, Amsoil, RP, etc.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
As for Honda's owners manual/MM every other oci recommendation, no Honda dealers that I'm aware of follow that recommendation, they always change the oil and filter with an oil change. Having discussed this topic before, some Honda dealers service writers won't even acknowledge that such a recommendation exists at all. I called several and some totally denied that it is an owners manual or MM AB symbol recommendation. My thought is that one Honda consideration may be the ability to advertise lower overall maintenance costs. And, with the Honda A-02 rated at ~67@20um, it's likely that filter is only getting some semi decent efficiency by the second oci.

Dealers doesn't like to get less revenue/profit, without changing oil filter they would make less money.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Dealers doesn't like to get less revenue/profit, without changing oil filter they would make less money.

That could well be part of it, but to totally deny or be unaware the Honda fci recommendation seems to go beyond that. In phone calls to some dealers service writers that seems very common. Again, reduced advertised maintenance costs and a very low efficiency OEM filter may be also be factors in the recommendation imo.

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
In phone calls to some dealers service writers that seems very common.


Service writers have the least technical knowledge among the dealership staff, except maybe the cashier.
Otherwise they'd be mechanics.
A service writer once told me I should get my manual transmission flushed.

 

[Sayjac]

^^^^^Certainly may be true, but not really the point. Whatever the reason(s), Honda dealers, service writers, service managers, and mech/techs routinely ignore this owners manual/MM fci recommendation with little or no exception.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: skyship

Never remove and drain a screw on oil filter, unless you bin it!
It's a real pity that the old element and can filters are not used with new engine designs, as they were perfect for allowing inspection and draining of the filter.


Hey - I agree with you 100% on a post!
I don't see the point of going 2x if you still take it off and drain it. Leave it on and all is well. Or take it off and throw another one on.
I also like my Ecotec 2.2L that has a cartridge - can reach it from the top and easily inspect the filter when replacing. Less waste too.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I do 20K miles on a Purolator Classic but that's with 3 OCI's.

No reason to change the filter every oil change.



Now THAT's extreme!

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Filter gaskets are made to be reused how many times? I'd say no more than one installation.

Over the years Ive reused MANY filters and not one has leaked or weeped no problems what so ever. The gasket is perfectly fine for reuse.

I'm on my second run with a NAPA Platinum,removed it dumped the old oil out let it drain then reused it.


I too have removed and reused many Mobil 1 and Amsoil oil filter over the years and have had zero issues.

The M1 and similarly made filters have a really thick gasket. I notice that it gets squished about 40% if you instal the filter properly and don't over tighten it. When i remove it, the amount of gasket sticking out past the filter is the same +/- as a Pureone and similarly made filters have when NEW!

I once tried to reuse a HAMP (Honda's performance filter) which has a thin gasket like the OEM Honda filter, P1, etc. The gasket was pretty much done and when i tried to tighten the filter back on, i could feel the filter body touching the block and i wasn't even done tightening it. Clearly, this would have resulted in the filter leaking at the gasket is too thin the second time around to properly seal.
As far as FCI does... I feel perfectly safe taking an M1 for a 15,000 mile ride. It's designed for this interval and i'm sure it can handle 30k if needed.

The same can't be said about the cheaper filters where the manufacturer only recommends 3k MAX before trashing it. I'm sure those filters can last 15k as well. Some will be fine, others will have started falling apart 10,000 miles ago... either way, the engine should be fine and at the end of the day, it's whatever helps you sleep easy at night.

 

[NJC]

Count me in as well ... using Mann filters with XD-3 (0W30) on my Volvo, it's about 20k km's between change (not oil, just filter).

 

[oldhp]

...and the new oil flushs out the oil filter.

 

[Shannow]

No it doesn't, it's flowing the same direction as the flow that formed the cake in the first place, so nothing is flushed. ADBV would stop it for the most part on the drain anyway.

 

[JZiggy]

I'm doing the same thing. Change the oil when I feel like it, and the filter at stated intervals. I'm comfortable with 7500 miles for Purolator Classics, etc; 10,000 for M1 and PureOnes; 15,000 for Bosch D+.

There's a lot of data showing that filters are more efficient after being in service for a while.

 

[HerrStig]

I used to run PH 8s on my Volvo B20 and 21 engines which were twice the size of the OEM PH 16. I changed the oil at three and the filter at 6. My 76 OHC engine went about 400K and was still strong whe the body gave out. I got the idea from a Volvo racing parts outfit which sold PH8s with their label (IPD) for the engines.
Olaf and Svenn had the great idea to use water from the cowl to flush the box section rockers on the 240. Net result in the frozen and salt laden north was the rockers were filled with salt water all winter. No wonder that part of the car failed.

 

[tig1]

When I change oil I prefer to drain as much old oil from the engine as I can.

 

[DBMaster]

Just wondering, but is someone looking for a majority validation here? You're not going to get one.

I think with either approach you can sleep at night knowing you're not going to wreck your engine. LOL!