Jailed for taking electricity worth 5 cents !

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: PSS
He was arrested for being a smart [censored].

Marc Johnson, police chief and city manager of Chamblee, said, "Bottom line: if he had just said, 'Sorry I can just unplug,' there wouldn't have been a report."

If you mess with the cops they will always charge you with something...



I emailed Mr Johnson, with no response. I hope he got lots of emails from outraged internetters.
 
Originally Posted By: KenO
I emailed Mr Johnson, with no response. I hope he got lots of emails from outraged internetters.


Can you post a copy of the email you sent on here? I think that would be interesting to see.
 
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: KenO
I emailed Mr Johnson, with no response. I hope he got lots of emails from outraged internetters.


Can you post a copy of the email you sent on here? I think that would be interesting to see.



Sure:

Mr. Johnson,

I've read a number of reports lately about the man arrested for allegedly stealing electricity from a Chamblee middle school. While there is a lot of speculation going on, especially online, I have a question. There is a report I've read that somebody called 911 about the 'theft' of electricity. If this is true, do you know who made the 911 call? If I'm not mistaken, 911 is for emergency services only, correct? This whole case seems, from a readers perspective at least, like a HUGE misuse of police & emergency services resources. If there indeed was a 911 call for theft of electricity, should this caller not be cited to appear in court for making a 911 call for a non-emergency service? I do remember in high school in upstate NY a fellow student picked up the phones handset, dialled 911, and then hung back up. Within 15 minutes sheriffs officers were on site, and the student was expelled from the vocational program we were in. 911 is a big deal, and in most places, already an overloaded service. While not a Chamblee resident (I live in Auburn, GA), I feel the person who made the 911 call is more a danger to society than a man who was what appears to be tresspassing on school property (which really seems like it should have been handled thru school administrators, not a random person calling 911 for theft of electricity). I'm of the personal opinion that police should not be called for such trivial matters, especially 911, unless all other peaceful options have been removed from the table. Maybe they have been, and it's not able to be reported in the papers due to an on-ging investigation.

Just a perspective from a citizen reading reports. Thanks for reading this, and have a great day
 
Originally Posted By: PSS
He was arrested for being a smart [censored].

Marc Johnson, police chief and city manager of Chamblee, said, "Bottom line: if he had just said, 'Sorry I can just unplug,' there wouldn't have been a report."

If you mess with the cops they will always charge you with something...


No they don't. I'd really like to see you prove such a blanket statement.
 
Originally Posted By: PSS
He was arrested for being a smart [censored].

Marc Johnson, police chief and city manager of Chamblee, said, "Bottom line: if he had just said, 'Sorry I can just unplug,' there wouldn't have been a report."

If you mess with the cops they will always charge you with something...


Nice! there goes freedom of speech. Let cops do whatever they want to you and we the people keep our mouths shut
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
That about right?

That's sure seems to be the prevalent mentality today. Its all communal and about community.
There is a word for that.

Right and wrong? what's that?


If the police search your car when they have no evidence and lock you up for 15 hours when the evidence they have means its a 5c theft, it's called a police state, something historically practiced by those on the left and the right.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
That about right?

That's sure seems to be the prevalent mentality today. Its all communal and about community.
There is a word for that.

Right and wrong? what's that?


If the police search your car when they have no evidence and lock you up for 15 hours when the evidence they have means its a 5c theft, it's called a police state, something historically practiced by those on the left and the right.


So you still don't understand how probable cause and reasonable suspicion works?

This is why I don't practice. No matter how many times it's explained, laymen think they know better.

I so enjoy sitting in a courtroom and watch them flounder.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
So you still don't understand how probable cause and reasonable suspicion works?

You think that's bad? People up here bandy those terms about only because they heard them on Law and Order, despite the fact they have no standing as legal terms in this country.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Trajan
So you still don't understand how probable cause and reasonable suspicion works?

You think that's bad? People up here bandy those terms about only because they heard them on Law and Order, despite the fact they have no standing as legal terms in this country.
wink.gif



I object! And plead the fifth.
 
I would expect the guy to be acquitted.

First, if it's not illegal, it's legal, bad manners notwithstanding.

Generally speaking, generalized theft statutes don't fit very well with intangible property like electricity. I doubt the prosecutor is looking forward to proving how electric transmission works and what specific property was actually, beyond a reasonable doubt, taken. Maybe it was charged this way because a couple of cops sat around and tried to figure out a way to get this guy, rather than taking a reasoned approach to the matter, and the prosecuting attorney will amend or drop the charge, or maybe the Georgia statute works for something like this. My state has a specific statute for theft of utility services to make prosecuting it less problematic.

Second, with the exception of a few strict liability crimes, one not only must commit the proscribed act, but also simultaneously have the requisite mental state (mens rea) associated with the crime. People commonly use electric outlets in publicly owned places and I strongly doubt that they think of this as an illegal taking of property. I've never heard of anyone in my area being prosecuted for it. It seems unworkable to me to think that a little theft will be dealt with not at all, but a little bigger one will be prosecuted. There are actually some important constitutional principles involved with reasonable notice of what is illegal and what is not. If this outlet is located in an area where the public would not normally have access, then obviously this becomes more problematic for the defendant.

Indeed, many people do not perceive the taking of intangible property as even being wrong. While not a particularly close analogy, there is now a whole generation of people that will bitterly defend the "right" to download copyrighted material on the basis that they haven't really taken anything.

The easy and legal way to deal with jacknuts like this is to just pass an ordinance that you can't plug your leaf ( or volt or whatever ) into an outlet that is not your own or specifically provided for that purpose. That way it's clear what is illegal and you don't have to worry about busting kids for plugging in their Nintendo at the park.

As to the cop, his spelling skills are immaterial. I understand the car was unattended, unlocked, and on public property? Generally, police can do anything the public can do, and if a member of the public could have walked up to this car in a public place, opened the door, and rifled through the glovebox, I think it's a tough sell to say the cop couldn't do the same. Where's the expectation of privacy in an unlocked car on publicly accessible property? If it had been on private property, where the cop would be "breaking the close", then it could be looked at in a different way. His reason for doing it was certainly a lame pretext, but I don't think it matters.
 
Last edited:
You mean to tell that if a thief can enter an unlocked car and rifle through it contents, then a cop should be able to do it so, huh?

Do you think there is nothing wrong when a thief does that? Or only if the cop does it?
 
It was not much of a theft, but a theft is a theft, and it was OK in my book to arrest him. If I stole toilet paper from a public library's janitorial closet, it would be theft too.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Do you think there is nothing wrong when a thief does that? Or only if the cop does it?

I'm not entirely sure about the circumstances, but up here, the cop would be able to do so as part of the investigation. I'm not sure why this would be an issue down south.

Additionally, up here, if it is a case where a warrant is needed to search the vehicle, the police secure it, keep everyone away from it, and wait until the warrant appears. Would it be better to wait five hours for the warrant to show up (and the warrant will show up, you can be sure of that) than have it over with in a few minutes?

The police are searching as part of their duties, whether they're right or wrong. Their actions are submitted before court for scrutiny, and they intend those actions to go before the court for scrutiny.

A thief is kind of the opposite, no?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


Additionally, up here, if it is a case where a warrant is needed to search the vehicle, the police secure it, keep everyone away from it, and wait until the warrant appears. Would it be better to wait five hours for the warrant to show up (and the warrant will show up, you can be sure of that) than have it over with in a few minutes?


IDK, "I'll get a warrant" is at least some of the time, a bluff. At least in theory, refusing to allow a search isn't enough evidence to get a warrant, so in police academy they teach some other specious reasoning. Eg the "I thought it was abandoned..."

They will say Leaf owner didn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy as he left it unlocked.

Similarly, if you don't have a chain across your driveway, the fuzz can enter your property and put a tracking device on your car. The chain= stay away.
 
Up here, the tracking device itself would call for a warrant. The yard isn't an issue, though. But, people put too much faith in the notion of warrants. Sure, a police officer might bluff. But, if he wants one, he's going to get one. Up here at least, justices of the peace sign them, not real judges, except for the wiretap side of things. And a JP isn't going to question anything. He'll sign it and may not even read it. And once a search is authorized by warrant, the fruits of the search are almost guaranteed to be admissible in court up here. At least a warrantless search has a much greater chance of getting tossed in court, be it consensual or not.

If an officer pulled me over for something and thought I was carrying something I shouldn't be and I knew I was not, I'd be more inclined to let him search than refuse his request. If he got some false (but concrete) information somewhere that led to me being checked in the first place and decided to get a warrant, I'd be sitting twiddling my thumbs for a few hours waiting for the warrant to arrive and him to conduct his search and find nothing, as opposed to letting him have at it.

If I had lots of time on my hands, great!
wink.gif
And, if someone had made a malicious complaint against me and that was the grounds for the search, had the police gone through all the trouble of getting a warrant, I suppose they'd be much more likely in that case to nail the false complainant to the wall.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
You mean to tell that if a thief can enter an unlocked car and rifle through it contents, then a cop should be able to do it so, huh?

Do you think there is nothing wrong when a thief does that? Or only if the cop does it?


Look at it another way, purely hypothetical.
The cop gets a call a car is plugged into a school where it doesn't belong, he responds, takes a quick look, decides its an electric car just gassing up and leaves.

the next day 9am a bomb goes off killing and maiming student and teachers. It is found out the car was the bomb and the power it was getting was powering the device and a remote trigger.

I would love to see the nightly news and read the resulting thread on BITOG about how the cop was a negligent slacker who was just to lazy to do his job.
Cops have a bum deal, they enforce the law, even if its law that no one wants or he/she doesn't like they have to enforce it anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
First, if it's not illegal, it's legal, bad manners notwithstanding.

So it's ok if I run an extension cord over to the neighbor's house at night to plug in my heater? If it's only bad manners...I don't like my neighbor anyway!

I have a commercial warehouse for my business and out back is a storage lot for RVs and boats. (that is not mine) Somebody reached into a window of a pump house and plugged in their RV to my power with an extension cord. Needless to say I was not pleased. I don't care if they were only using one watt. You cannot do that without asking! I unhooked the outlet completely and left the owner a "nice" note. If they tried to plug it back in, and then get belligerent about it, I wouldn't have a problem calling the police.

I haven't read this whole thread but I think this can be compared to WIFI sharing/theft. It is ILLEGAL to use somebody else's internet connection without their permission. People have been prosecuted, in extreme cases.
 
Originally Posted By: Number21
Originally Posted By: Win
First, if it's not illegal, it's legal, bad manners notwithstanding.

So it's ok if I run an extension cord over to the neighbor's house at night to plug in my heater? If it's only bad manners...I don't like my neighbor anyway!


The theory the Leaf defenders follow is that the school is a public institution that tries to host guests. Using its electricity is not comparable to taking it from a private party.

I wouldn't read/take my neighbor's newspaper, but I would read one at McDonalds with my coffee.

If I waltz into McDonalds and start reading a paper without buying anything, someone on staff might come up and ask me to buy or leave. Or they might proactively post a sign by the papers indicating they're for customers only. Similarly I might eat at McD's 5 days a week but on the 6th day stop in and use the lavatory, use some TP, water, and electric light, and not buy something that day. Management would probably let that slide if they knew me and saw me in there all the time.

The school was not proactive in their approach WRT signage or policy. Now everyone's trying to put words in their mouth. The school is the custodian of the property and the secure defense of it; a 3rd party felt obligated to call the cops assuming the school would be offended, and (I presume) taking personal offense as a taxpayer.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Vikas
You mean to tell that if a thief can enter an unlocked car and rifle through it contents, then a cop should be able to do it so, huh?

Do you think there is nothing wrong when a thief does that? Or only if the cop does it?


Look at it another way, purely hypothetical.
The cop gets a call a car is plugged into a school where it doesn't belong, he responds, takes a quick look, decides its an electric car just gassing up and leaves.

the next day 9am a bomb goes off killing and maiming student and teachers. It is found out the car was the bomb and the power it was getting was powering the device and a remote trigger.

I would love to see the nightly news and read the resulting thread on BITOG about how the cop was a negligent slacker who was just to lazy to do his job.
Cops have a bum deal, they enforce the law, even if its law that no one wants or he/she doesn't like they have to enforce it anyway.



It's sad that todays media has you in such a frenzy over bombs.
 
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Vikas
You mean to tell that if a thief can enter an unlocked car and rifle through it contents, then a cop should be able to do it so, huh?

Do you think there is nothing wrong when a thief does that? Or only if the cop does it?


Look at it another way, purely hypothetical.
The cop gets a call a car is plugged into a school where it doesn't belong, he responds, takes a quick look, decides its an electric car just gassing up and leaves.

the next day 9am a bomb goes off killing and maiming student and teachers. It is found out the car was the bomb and the power it was getting was powering the device and a remote trigger.

I would love to see the nightly news and read the resulting thread on BITOG about how the cop was a negligent slacker who was just to lazy to do his job.
Cops have a bum deal, they enforce the law, even if its law that no one wants or he/she doesn't like they have to enforce it anyway.



It's sad that todays media has you in such a frenzy over bombs.


This is exactly I said before few replies away. I say the cop was *dumb* to open the door of that vehicle because it could have been jury rigged to go off!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom