Jailed for taking electricity worth 5 cents !

[javacontour]

No one is saying he DESERVED to get arrested for his attitude. What folks CLEARLY said was a bad attitude does not serve you well in such situations.

Please, don't put words in other people's mouths.

If they didn't arrest him on the spot, but after an investigation, it's likely the DA had to file charges and get an arrest warrant.

Is this really a cop gone bad or a DA or other sending a message?

EDITED TO ADD: if he resisted his arrest, again IF, then he didn't do anything to help his situation and perhaps made it worse by resiting and potentially adding to the list of charges.

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Hold on, some are saying he deserved to get arrested because of his attitude, some are saying the DA got involved and issued a warrant due to the seriousness of the crime.

What was the police officers reason for entering the vehicle? If someone entered your vehicle, wouldn't you ask them why?

Why did they not arrest him on the spot? Because they had to confirm with the school whether he had permission or not. So in the car park, the officer didn't have probable cause. The owner didn't obviously do anything illegal during the encounter because he wasn't arrested on the spot.

And when they arrested him, they did so in a manner to keep him overnight.

Shifting the blame to the owner, to the DA just ignores the fact that the police dealt with this incorrectly. If you like the police over reacting then fine, you might just change your mind when they misbehave with you.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Astro14

Finally, this guy decided to pick a fight...from his own words...and when you pick a fight with the cops, generally, you lose...


But only because the cop can abuse his authority, not because the cop is morally right or has made better judgement-none of that matters at that point, only the authority bestowed upon the cop's own personal judgement is what matters. Why should this guy have to appear before a judge or spend a night in jail? Just because a cop has the authority to force these obligations onto a cilivilian?



Nope...not the point at all...the Leaf driver could have chosen not to pick a fight, he could have chosen to explain what was going on, he could have chose to avoid confrontation...

It was the Leaf driver's choice.

Call the cops what you like, until you've been one, until you've had to make the kinds of calls that they do every single day, you're really not in a position to judge the cop's action.

But his experience should serve as a lesson - don't act like you're a threat to the cop, just be a polite, reasonable person, and you generally won't have any trouble. I've had lots of interactions with police officers. Sometimes when I am wrong, sometimes when I am right, and I've never managed to antagonize or cause a threat response in the officer with whom I am dealing.

However, if you're looking for a fight, looking for a confrontation, and you decide to look in the direction of a sworn officer of the law, you'll find that confrontation...and you'll lose every time.

But the choice is completely yours...

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Astro14

Finally, this guy decided to pick a fight...from his own words...and when you pick a fight with the cops, generally, you lose...


But only because the cop can abuse his authority, not because the cop is morally right or has made better judgement-none of that matters at that point, only the authority bestowed upon the cop's own personal judgement is what matters. Why should this guy have to appear before a judge or spend a night in jail? Just because a cop has the authority to force these obligations onto a cilivilian?



Nope...not the point at all...the Leaf driver could have chosen not to pick a fight, he could have chosen to explain what was going on, he could have chose to avoid confrontation...

It was the Leaf driver's choice.

Call the cops what you like, until you've been one, until you've had to make the kinds of calls that they do every single day, you're really not in a position to judge the cop's action.

But his experience should serve as a lesson - don't act like you're a threat to the cop, just be a polite, reasonable person, and you generally won't have any trouble. I've had lots of interactions with police officers. Sometimes when I am wrong, sometimes when I am right, and I've never managed to antagonize or cause a threat response in the officer with whom I am dealing.

However, if you're looking for a fight, looking for a confrontation, and you decide to look in the direction of a sworn officer of the law, you'll find that confrontation...and you'll lose every time.

But the choice is completely yours...



Since when is speaking to an oficer a 'threat'? I think most of these so-called officers are more threats than the people they're harrassing.

 

[TrevorS]

Where is this info about attitude and resisting arrest coming from.

At the school he was not arrested. 11 days later the police came to his home to arrest him full well knowing he would be in jail overnight.

What has he been charged with?

So much speculating to justify police actions. No wonder the police get away with so much if they are always given the benefit of the doubt and citizens should have behaved in particular ways.

The police are not above the law. You can find many instances of huge discrepancies between police accounts and video evidence. People really need to treat the police and the citizen as equal parties in any case.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I don't think there is one officer in this country that would charge a person for theft for plugging in their car, UNLESS the guy was being a complete and utter jack-off.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

 

[javacontour]

Really no different than speculating about the officers attitude, right?

After all, the officer could have been by the book, 100% calm, cool and not on any power trip, as has been speculated by some in this thread.

If you are going to call for an end to speculation, let's have it be consistent.

If the citizen is presumed innocent, then why not give the officer the same benefit of the doubt?

This goes back to my point that such matters are decided in courts, not on the side of the road, in the school parking lot, etc.

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Where is this info about attitude and resisting arrest coming from.

At the school he was not arrested. 11 days later the police came to his home to arrest him full well knowing he would be in jail overnight.

What has he been charged with?

So much speculating to justify police actions. No wonder the police get away with so much if they are always given the benefit of the doubt and citizens should have behaved in particular ways.

The police are not above the law. You can find many instances of huge discrepancies between police accounts and video evidence. People really need to treat the police and the citizen as equal parties in any case.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: KenO

Since when is speaking to an oficer a 'threat'? I think most of these so-called officers are more threats than the people they're harrassing.


Never said that speaking an officer was a threat. Further, I stated that I have spoken to an officer on several occasions, including when I was in the wrong, and never triggered his threat response.

But you can trigger the officer's threat response...with your behaviour and your words...

If you don't understand how an officer is forced to view the world and the people in it, and you don't know what it's like to live in his world, then you'll likely view/judge them unfairly, as you've done above, because you've not walked a mile in their shoes.

And for your sake, I hope that you're polite, respectful, keep your hands in view and maintain your calm when you deal with a public servant who is willing to take risk to serve the greater good. His service has earned at least that much respect...and your life will go by much more smoothly if you demonstrate just a tiny bit of respect for his authority in the situation.

Or, be confrontational, assert yourself in an aggressive way, cross over to being a jerk...and let me know how that works out for you...

 

[dishdude]

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/3146...-worth-of-juice

From the link:

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriffs Dept for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

So the guy has an attitude problem and the Police pretty much used the system and wasted resources to teach this guy a lesson.

 

[javacontour]

When is it wasting police resources to deal with someone who has been previously told by those in charge of the facilities that he was not to use the tennis courts. (Apparently during school hours!)

Had the school not done something and this guy injured a student, all heck would break loose.

He was told not to be there. He was there. How is this a waste of police resources? Seems like we have an adult who disregards authority and then cries when he gets arrested.

Instead of learning from his first run in with the school officials, he decided the rules didn't apply to him and returned. Not only did he return, but decided it was "ok" to charge his car while he was there.

And we are supposed to feel sorry for him because he's being treated unfairly?

After the number of high profile school shooting incidents, why would anyone expect that schools are very picky about what is happening on their property?

Originally Posted By: dishdude
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/3146...-worth-of-juice

From the link:

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriffs Dept for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

So they pretty much used the system and wasted resources to teach this guy a lesson.

 

[TrevorS]

The officer doesn't need the benefit of doubt because we are talking about facts we agree on.

Theft of 5c of electricity doesn't justify handcuffs and 15 hours in jail before a trial.

A newish vehicle plugged into a power outlet at a school doesn't justify police entry based on the call from someone not connected to the school.

Theft is theft. Where does is begin and end?

Police abusing their powers. Where does that begin and end? Entering your car claiming it was abandoned. Putting you in jail overnight for a 5c power theft.

Like I said, next time you get a parking ticket, will it be right for the police to obtain a warrant, come to your house at 8pm, cuff you and put you in jail for 18 hours?

If your kid went to that same school and accidentally brought home school supplies, you'd be ok with the police coming to your house and arresting them and putting them in jail? After all theft is theft and ignorance is not a defense. I presume you and others would stand there without word and tell the officer you agree with them while instructing your child and spouse to not argue with the police just in case it makes things worse.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Astro, implicit in my comment about proportionality is the acknowledgement that theft is theft.

Now let's put everybody in jail for one night who has knowingly or unknowingly cost somebody else 0.0000001c by some action. After all, theft is theft.

And as to whether arguing with the police is a good idea or not, obviously these days it isn't, but does that make police misuse of authority right?

I'll admit that we don't know the circumstances that led to the arrest, but I have to say that these day I am more inclined to believe that police misuse their authority more than anything else. And statistics about police behavior back that up.


I apologize Trevor, I didn't see it...the nature of written correspondence...I understand your point about proportionality...and truthfully, particularly in a case like this, the guy's actions are going to determine the cops' response.

But I will have to disagree with you on the belief that the police misuse their authority. I've had lots of interactions with the police over the years. They've all been professional and courteous, even when I've been speeding, or someone has complained about me (I wasn't always a responsible 50 year old guy...at one point in the distant past, I was a young fighter pilot, quite sure of himself, and not burdened with a great deal of restraint).

So, do I believe the media hype about how bad the police are, or do I trust my own assessment from experience?

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: KenO

Since when is speaking to an oficer a 'threat'? I think most of these so-called officers are more threats than the people they're harrassing.


Never said that speaking an officer was a threat. Further, I stated that I have spoken to an officer on several occasions, including when I was in the wrong, and never triggered his threat response.

But you can trigger the officer's threat response...with your behaviour and your words...

If you don't understand how an officer is forced to view the world and the people in it, and you don't know what it's like to live in his world, then you'll likely view/judge them unfairly, as you've done above, because you've not walked a mile in their shoes.

And for your sake, I hope that you're polite, respectful, keep your hands in view and maintain your calm when you deal with a public servant who is willing to take risk to serve the greater good. His service has earned at least that much respect...and your life will go by much more smoothly if you demonstrate just a tiny bit of respect for his authority in the situation.

Or, be confrontational, assert yourself in an aggressive way, cross over to being a jerk...and let me know how that works out for you...




I've dealt with police many times, unfortunately. Never, ever called them myself. I'd say roughly 1/3 of the officers that have pulled me over for a traffic citation have been respectful, and I was absolutely calm and respectful to them in return. When pulled over, the vehicle is always turned off, window down (except last time, drivers window was broken - so, door opened), both hands on the steering wheel. Always ask permission before reaching for ANYTHING.

However, you're putting them on a pedastal. They aren't special. They're people, and yes, they're risking their lives, but THEY MADE THAT CHOICE - don't force their problems on me. The other 2/3 of officers who've pulled me over had obvious power trips and/or god complexes. Especially lower-level municipality police. Most state police I've dealt with had far better things to do. And with police getting this military firepower lately, things are quickly turning into a police state. It's important to know your rights, and for example, if you have an officer screaming at you on the side of the road - I wouldn't hesitate to tell him to go F himself and write me the ticket, or arrest me. It's happened once before.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
The officer doesn't need the benefit of doubt because we are talking about facts we agree on.

Theft of 5c of electricity doesn't justify handcuffs and 15 hours in jail before a trial.

A newish vehicle plugged into a power outlet at a school doesn't justify police entry based on the call from someone not connected to the school.

Theft is theft. Where does is begin and end?

Police abusing their powers. Where does that begin and end? Entering your car claiming it was abandoned. Putting you in jail overnight for a 5c power theft.

Like I said, next time you get a parking ticket, will it be right for the police to obtain a warrant, come to your house at 8pm, cuff you and put you in jail for 18 hours?

If your kid went to that same school and accidentally brought home school supplies, you'd be ok with the police coming to your house and arresting them and putting them in jail? After all theft is theft and ignorance is not a defense. I presume you and others would stand there without word and tell the officer you agree with them while instructing your child and spouse to not argue with the police just in case it makes things worse.

Keep digging.


You mean like the time the police came to my apartment because my stepson and some others did over $1000 in damages to the siding with their airsoft guns?

He had to pay for the damages. I was ok with that. He and the other boys did the damages, they paid for them.

I have no problem with the police coming over and explaining to my child that their are consequences for your actions.

But he was smart enough not to argue it with the officer.

You keep digging.

You did see the facts where the school told this guy not to use the tennis courts because of their previous run ins with him using the courts during school hours.

Like I said, wait till ALL the facts come in.

If my kid takes school supplies, they have to suffer the consequences.

A traffic ticket won't get you arrested.

Now, if you ignore it, there may be an arrest warrant issued, and you are subject to arrest.

Again, choose to flaunt the law and there may be consequences.

This guy chose to ignore the legitimate instruction of the school administration and use the tennis courts. Not only that, but he then plugs in his car.

Either he is insanely stupid, or he thinks the rules don't apply to him. Or maybe both.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: KenO
It's important to know your rights, and for example, if you have an officer screaming at you on the side of the road - I wouldn't hesitate to tell him to go F himself and write me the ticket, or arrest me. It's happened once before.


Or just give them the basic info like you're required to like Name, DL, insurance card, registration. After that you don't have to answer most if not all of their questions. For instance, if they ask where you're coming from etc. Quite a few youtube videos on it which are pretty good. Many similiar tips dealing with Border Patrol. Ask if you're being detained and if you're free to go. If they answer yes on being detained ask for what reason. Turn the tables on them in other words. Or ask them where they're coming from.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
A thief is a thief no matter what the steal and no matter how much or little value the stolen item may have.


well, you and i can agree on this.

 

[TrevorS]

Here's the police chiefs version.

He confirms Sergeant Ford signed the arrest warrant and seems to disagree with his statement that "a theft is a theft and he would do it again".

If the owner was on the tennis courts when previously told not to, he needs to be charged with trespassing. Is he being so charged and if not why not? And if he was trouble before, why not just ban him from the courts altogether rather than say he can use them with permission. Something does not add up with how the information is being presented.

And the account of the officer investigating the vehicle in full view of the courts but being unable to establish ownership is comical. So there is one vehicle and some people on the nearby court that is in full view and you don't ask them before entering?



Wednesday evening, Chamblee City Manager and Police Chief Marc Johnson issued the following statement:

We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. The responding officer located the vehicle in the rear of the building at the kitchen loading dock up against the wall with a cord run to an outlet. The officer spent some time trying to determine whose vehicle it was. It was unlocked and he eventually began looking through the interior after verifying it did not belong to the school system.

The officer, his marked patrol vehicle and the electric vehicle were all in clear view of the tennis courts. Eventually, a man on the courts told the officer that the man playing tennis with him owned the vehicle. The officer went to the courts and interviewed the vehicle owner. The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up.

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriffs Dept for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

I am sure that Sgt. Ford was feeling defensive when he said a theft is a theft and he would do it again. Ultimately, Sgt. Ford did make the decision to pursue the theft charges, but the decision was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.

 

[KenO]

My first problem with that is this was a 911 call. The person that made that call should be cited to appear in court for misuse of emergency services.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: KenO

Since when is speaking to an oficer a 'threat'? I think most of these so-called officers are more threats than the people they're harrassing.


Never said that speaking an officer was a threat. Further, I stated that I have spoken to an officer on several occasions, including when I was in the wrong, and never triggered his threat response.

But you can trigger the officer's threat response...with your behaviour and your words...

If you don't understand how an officer is forced to view the world and the people in it, and you don't know what it's like to live in his world, then you'll likely view/judge them unfairly, as you've done above, because you've not walked a mile in their shoes.

And for your sake, I hope that you're polite, respectful, keep your hands in view and maintain your calm when you deal with a public servant who is willing to take risk to serve the greater good. His service has earned at least that much respect...and your life will go by much more smoothly if you demonstrate just a tiny bit of respect for his authority in the situation.

Or, be confrontational, assert yourself in an aggressive way, cross over to being a jerk...and let me know how that works out for you...


Very true, but some just have to learn the hard way.

 

[jrustles]

The sad thing about this is that every single person in this thread has committed a crime (likely several) that they have not been punished for.

Guys, the cop's not in the forum. Kissing his glutes isn't going to make you look good or buy you a margin of safety.

Please everyone, tell us more about how this smug hippy criminal should be dragged through publically funded police investigations, consuming publically paid officer man-hours, be dragged through publically funded court preceedings and rot in publicly funded jail for consuming less electrical current than is typically lost in a mile of transmission wire. It's not like any more serious crimes, like perhaps stealing a sandwich from a deli, are going on.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Here's the police chiefs version.

He confirms Sergeant Ford signed the arrest warrant and seems to disagree with his statement that "a theft is a theft and he would do it again".

If the owner was on the tennis courts when previously told not to, he needs to be charged with trespassing. Is he being so charged and if not why not?



Wednesday evening, Chamblee City Manager and Police Chief Marc Johnson issued the following statement:

We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. The responding officer located the vehicle in the rear of the building at the kitchen loading dock up against the wall with a cord run to an outlet. The officer spent some time trying to determine whose vehicle it was. It was unlocked and he eventually began looking through the interior after verifying it did not belong to the school system.

The officer, his marked patrol vehicle and the electric vehicle were all in clear view of the tennis courts. Eventually, a man on the courts told the officer that the man playing tennis with him owned the vehicle. The officer went to the courts and interviewed the vehicle owner. The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up.

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriffs Dept for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

I am sure that Sgt. Ford was feeling defensive when he said a theft is a theft and he would do it again. Ultimately, Sgt. Ford did make the decision to pursue the theft charges, but the decision was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.


It all boils down to that this guy was trespassing and stealing.

He should get rid of it an buy a bicycle, as he not only is he not smart enough to charge it at home, but can't afford to either.