Jaguar F-Type V8 Supercharged.....0W20. Seriously?

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Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
If it weren't for the possible self destruction of the valvetrain, I'd be dumping Castrol Edge 0W40 into this.
Out of curiosity, how would that happen?
 
Originally Posted by Patman
20 weight has not been the recommended grade for two decades on a forced induction and direct injected high performance application though. Show me a vehicle like that which has run a 20 weight oil for the past few decades. You won't find any, because they don't exist. So it's still unproven in the real world....

+1
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
If it weren't for the possible self destruction of the valvetrain, I'd be dumping Castrol Edge 0W40 into this.
Out of curiosity, how would that happen?


A good question. Allegedly something goes on that causes the timing chain to skip and self destruct.

Sounds absolutely stupid, but it's spooky enough to give me pause.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
If it weren't for the possible self destruction of the valvetrain, I'd be dumping Castrol Edge 0W40 into this.
Out of curiosity, how would that happen?
A good question. Allegedly something goes on that causes the timing chain to skip and self destruct.

Sounds absolutely stupid, but it's spooky enough to give me pause.
This makes no sense, there is not enough delta between 0W-20 and 0W-40 to make a timing chain skip?
 
I agree. Makes me feel more like they screwed something up that their super thin (even for a 0W20) spec is supposed to be addressing.

Even their Euro spec is this oil. Matter of fact, if one makes a list of all of the oils that meet the spec, almost all of them are available only overseas.

Feels like just another wonky Jaguar engine constantly working toward suicide. Proud history of that over at Jag.
 
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
coffee2.gif
..simple......look up what they use on that engine/car in Europe and use that.
0w-20 in Europe too.
Both Castrol's and Mobil's websites call for the Jag-spec 0w20 in this Jag.
A great choice is an MB 229.71, VW 508, Jag-spec Mobil1 ESP x1 0w20, hard to get in the U.S. though, maybe via Ebay.

mobil1esp0w20.JPG
 

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Originally Posted by PimTac
Why? Does that scare you?



OMG. I just asked a question about the F150 Lightning engine, and you try to get all tough guy? LOL. Whatever makes you feel better.
 
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by Patman
20 weight has not been the recommended grade for two decades on a forced induction and direct injected high performance application though. Show me a vehicle like that which has run a 20 weight oil for the past few decades. You won't find any, because they don't exist. So it's still unproven in the real world....

The F-150 Lightning, the supercharged generation, was back speced to 5w-20. I'm not convinced people were switching in droves. It originally specified 5w-30.


DOHC and GDI?


SOHC and PFI. However the 03/04 Cobra was DOHC. Also PFI though.
 
Even Porsche (big thickie for years) is now going to 0w-20, like BMW too.
Will people be convinced once the whole world starts recommending 0w-20, which is basically there now?
These models, and note how new they are:

porscheGoesThin.JPG
 
To be fair, 0w20 in a new 2.0T 3-series BMW is likely fine. Most of these cars will never see anything more than in-town driving. There is a reason the M cars spec a higher viscosity oil, due to the heat they will see from spirited driving and track use.

I am surprised they don't spec a 0w30 or 5w30 in the Jag with the blower.
 
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
To be fair, 0w20 in a new 2.0T 3-series BMW is likely fine. Most of these cars will never see anything more than in-town driving. There is a reason the M cars spec a higher viscosity oil, due to the heat they will see from spirited driving and track use.
A 2018 M3 specs HTHS ~3.0 oil (LL-01FE), similar to SN GF-5 dexos1 Mobil1 AFE 0w30 for non-German engines. It is very tempting to go ahead and run an HTHS 3.5 oil if racing though, probably what I'd do.

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
I am surprised they don't spec a 0w30 or 5w30 in the Jag with the blower.
A blower (supercharger) doesn't get the hot turbocharger exhaust gases sharing a housing with the bearings, so temperature isn't the issue on the Jag 5.0. ... A lot of BMEP & force on the rods though, something I guess works out.

Certainly the high-spec 0w20 oils have great boundary lubrication properties, something to give them credit for.
 
V8 engines with blowers tend to run ridiculously hot when beat on. I don't think any modern version hasn't faced overheating issues. The GT500 guys are combatting some serious oil temps even with engine oil coolers.

I think maybe the CTS-V actually has the space to fit effective heat exchangers. Sports car bodies rarely do.
 
On another thread, I crunched the MOFT differences on 0w20 vs. 0w30 oil: It's only about 5% ! That's all the difference there is.
Given MOFT (min oil film thickness in the engine) is proportional to the square root of HTHS, it's not much. That further explains why 0w20 oils are getting so popular, as there is very little loss of viscous film, while bumping up the surface active FM & AW only slightly keeps it similar to what you'd get with higher HTHS oils.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
HTHS of 2.7
shocked2.gif

Not going into any v8 I own.

Do these cars burn a lot of oil?


I ONLY buy V8's. Thank Heavens G.M. still makes them.. My 2016 5.3 V8 Tahoe does just fine on 0W20 Mobil 1. The Tahoe is used for long trips plus in tons of 24/7 gridlock in Miami Beach. A/C is constantly on. Uses zero oil between changes.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
On another thread, I crunched the MOFT differences on 0w20 vs. 0w30 oil: It's only about 5% ! That's all the difference there is.
Given MOFT (min oil film thickness in the engine) is proportional to the square root of HTHS, it's not much. That further explains why 0w20 oils are getting so popular, as there is very little loss of viscous film, while bumping up the surface active FM & AW only slightly keeps it similar to what you'd get with higher HTHS oils.

That only works if the oil doesn't get overheated. Once overheated (or becomes dirty) those MOFT differences go out the window.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
That only works if the oil doesn't get overheated. Once overheated (or becomes dirty) those MOFT differences go out the window.
Filtration is only as important as the film thickness differences, and the SMALL 5% diff between an Xw20 & Xw30 is well maintained as temperature gets high. Remember, HTHS is already at a high temperature (302F), and cylinder wall oil temperature is around that number. ... I'm just not seeing any sudden explosion of difference between Xw20 & Xw30 film thickness as you claim. ......Do you have actual engineering data to show this weird unexpected phenomenon happening?....
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
coffee2.gif
..simple......look up what they use on that engine/car in Europe and use that.

0w-20 in Europe too.
Both Castrol's and Mobil's websites call for the Jag-spec 0w20 in this Jag.
A great choice is an MB 229.71, VW 508, Jag-spec Mobil1 ESP x1 0w20, hard to get in the U.S. though, maybe via Ebay.

Reported HTHSV = 2.6 cP and my calculations predict the actual HTHSV to be 2.55 cP.

For the Motul Specific 5122, they also predicted 2.55 cP, despite the reported value being 2.7 cP.

It looks like these new Euro 0W-20 (ACEA C5) oils are pushing the HTHSV down to 2.55 cP, which rounds off to the minimum limit of 2.6 cP so that they could increase the fuel economy as much as possible. Given that typical US 0W-20 has HTHSV = 2.7 cP, it seems that the Euro OEMs are are even more eager to increase the fuel economy than their US and Japanese counterparts. Also, 0W-16 is not available in Europe and they are stuck with HTHSV = 2.55 cP for a while.

Yes, Europe is coming from behind but 0W-20 is expected to be the most common oil in the new European cars:

"It is expected that ACEA C5 will become the baseline requirement for the next generation of OEM specifications as OEMs look to further reduce CO2 emissions. As a result of this, Lubrizol forecasts that the majority of ACEA C5 engine oils will be formulated as SAE 0W-20 and lighter with a minimum HTHS of 2.6 cP."

https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/acea-2016-becomes-mandatory-new-formulations/

Someone pointed out that most new Audis are using 0W-20 now.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
On another thread, I crunched the MOFT differences on 0w20 vs. 0w30 oil: It's only about 5% ! That's all the difference there is.
Given MOFT (min oil film thickness in the engine) is proportional to the square root of HTHS, it's not much. That further explains why 0w20 oils are getting so popular, as there is very little loss of viscous film, while bumping up the surface active FM & AW only slightly keeps it similar to what you'd get with higher HTHS oils.


A lot of people believe a hard driven forced induction/DI engine should have an oil with about a 3.5 HTHS, so to go to an oil with only a 2.6 to 2.7 HTHS is about a 25% difference! That's my big issue here.
 
Quote:
Lubricant Formulations to Enhance Engine Efficiency in Modern Internal Combustion Engines
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (2011-2015)

"Recent studies show that soot plays a significant role in wear in low viscosity applications [6]."


Quote:
Lubrication, Tribology & Motorsport
R.I. Taylor
Shell Global Solutions (UK), Cheshire Innovation Park, PO Box 1, Chester, CH1 3SH, UK

"In the calculations carried out above, the predicted oil film thicknesses for the higher
speed condition were greater than those for the lower speed condition because the oil temperature was
assumed to be the same in both simulations. In practice, it is likely that the oil temperature at the higher speed
condition is likely to be higher, so the minimum oil film thickness is likely, in practice, to be lower than the values
shown in Figure 7."
 
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