It was the market that cause the failures

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I agree, but I really don't think that a population is going to tolerate the League of Distinguished Gentlemen much longer if they're clawing and scraping to eat. That's just common sense. It's more a testimony to their exploitation of the system than it is a true belief in it.

Any ethical chief executive would acknowledge that he/she is 100% vested in the success of the free enterprise system. That he/she is mandated to assure its continued health. Not just what they get out of it via savvy manipulation.

If these strata dwellers cannot see this fundamental tenet of sensible stewardship ..then let's not grant them any facades of worth beyond their true fundamental motivations.

That is, is there any reason for me not to have a hostile perception of them. What's in it for me? ...even if I'm in the market??
 
I think the root cause is it's easier to spend other peoples money. Bankers are not playing with their own money, it belongs to those who deposited that money.

Folks borrowing to buy a home are using other people's money.

Wall Street wants OPM for the bailout.

Congress is spending OPM to consider the bailout.

The problem isn't too much money, it's spending OPM and then thinking any gains are theirs, but the losses belong to the OP who provided the money.
 
I can think of one unintended consequence immediately of a pay-cap. People at my work have spoken to me about certain exec positions. I don't want them. Because once you have the position, you are under public scrutiny, your work becomes your priority, which means the odds of your wife leaving you and your kid becoming a high society miscreant increases astronimically. You no longer have a life. There is a reason why these people make a lot of money. People only think about the mansions and nice cars but forget about all the b.s. that comes with the job.

It takes a special kind of person to want these sorts of positions and let's just say that "ethical" is not at the top of their list of qualities. In a perverse sort of way, you almost need greed as a qualification for the job. With a pay cap, these guys would disappear and go into other ventures in society, which means they would have to have lotteries at companies to see who gets punished and becomes the next CEO. Everybody would be dodging the job and people who get these jobs would sandbag so they aren't re-elected. U.S. companies would then turn into bureacracies and pretty soon, the Europeans, Chinese, and any place that didn't implement these caps would be blowing our economy away because we will effectively have no private sector left.
 
Fine VeeDubb, no caps. But when the failings come... kick them to the curb like any other position. Don't pat them on the butt saying "good game" while handing them millions in compensation to get out before the ship goes down. I miss shipped one package out of thousands (in my lifetime with this company) yesterday and it could have cost me my job if I had not corrected it. As far as commitment to the job, I haven't worked a 40-hour week in 18 years. By the same token, I do understand what you are saying and understand your point. I'm surprised however that I haven't heard more discussion on the issue of redlining, forcing banks to underwrite knowingly bad loans.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allen
I'll happily give Wall St. & Co. the alternative choice and allow the chips to fall as they may. If you see them opposing it ..then you know whom it hurts more.

When the entire economy falls flat on it's face, we all will hurt... more.

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I find it funny to give banks low interest loans when they rape us in return with their fees.
I think they should loan them the money at 24% and see how they like it.

Hope you or the company you work for doesn't need to borrow any money because we will pay 36%. Not a good idea.
 
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Fine VeeDubb, no caps. But when the failings come... kick them to the curb like any other position. Don't pat them on the butt saying "good game" while handing them millions in compensation to get out before the ship goes down.


I agree. In fact, I'd go even further and depending on the severity of the social crises, I'd look into a criminal investigation. If they are guilty of fraud and other unsavory behavior, then send them to prison.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Gary Allen
I'll happily give Wall St. & Co. the alternative choice and allow the chips to fall as they may. If you see them opposing it ..then you know whom it hurts more.

When the entire economy falls flat on it's face, we all will hurt... more.


Hey, nobody would be a winner ..you've got that right, but there is absolutely no better motivator for Wall St. & Co. to look out for the fiscal environment that they operate in than a MAJOR bloody nose for their tinkerings ..that they all benefited from and quietly saw no evil in.

..and what makes you think that we're not going to be hurting in either case? Just what is buffering the clowns that put us here going to accomplish?
 
IMO, as soon as the first cent in tax breaks or bailout hit any of these companies, the entire executive structure should be put on the same rates of pay as any other public servant until the debt/break is paid back in full, and they can once again continue trading as a private company.

It's still way more dough than anyone on this board will see, but a lot less than they are used to.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

..and what makes you think that we're not going to be hurting in either case? Just what is buffering the clowns that put us here going to accomplish?


You, me, the 22,138 other BITOG members along with most Americans that don't have a giant nest egg waiting them in the Caymans stand to loose our source of income. At this moment, we are technically not even in a recession. Doing nothing could most likely put us into a depression. Yep, that will teach those Wall Street guys. They will be standing in the soup lines right along with us watching our children starve. No thanks. I hate to say this but: bandaid the problem, investigate, and prosecute the [censored] out of some people. We will hurt either way, just how much are you willing to endure?
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Blaming the market for the losses and failures is like blaming Krispy Kreme that Rosie O'Donnell is fat.

Well then why is Rosie fat???????????????????
 
Why should the casinos be bailed out ? The stock market can return possible higher returns on your money for at a higher risk than for example a savings account. Those in the stock market know the gamble.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Blaming the market for the losses and failures is like blaming Krispy Kreme that Rosie O'Donnell is fat.

Well then why is Rosie fat???????????????????


Because she gave up sex for food.
 
Rosie must have been very active at one time in her life . Are you sure Pabs? The Krispy Cremes reason seems more like the cause but we all look to you for the correct answer!!!
 
Ny neighbor is a Captain for a major airline He talked about taking paycuts to help the company out $$$ wise which allowed the Management to get huge bonus' cause of the better bottom line numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
I find it funny to give banks low interest loans when they rape us in return with their fees.
I think they should loan them the money at 24% and see how they like it.

Based upon their "Credit Score" I may have to agree with you on this one. But as indicated, anyone borrowing money from them would be much higher. Otherwise, how will they repay their debt??
 
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

..and what makes you think that we're not going to be hurting in either case? Just what is buffering the clowns that put us here going to accomplish?


You, me, the 22,138 other BITOG members along with most Americans that don't have a giant nest egg waiting them in the Caymans stand to loose our source of income. At this moment, we are technically not even in a recession. Doing nothing could most likely put us into a depression. Yep, that will teach those Wall Street guys. They will be standing in the soup lines right along with us watching our children starve. No thanks. I hate to say this but: bandaid the problem, investigate, and prosecute the [censored] out of some people. We will hurt either way, just how much are you willing to endure?


Well, whatever it takes to shake the snot out of the clowns that sold us down the river.

I'll take a horribly painful broken leg ..than a limp for a lifetime. We've been being hacked up limb from limb in a progressive way for a very long time. I'm not into planned suffering if it's not SHARED by all concerned. The day of the bleeding masses for the "good" (of whom??) is just over with for me.

I'll enter into any venture enterprise and pay for it ..no matter what it is ..if I GET MY SHARE OF THAT WHICH I FINANCED.

The S&L crisis cost everyone one of us $3500 per person (probably more). That was over $15k that I picked up the tab for. Another "enterprise" that I'm financing has racked up $10T in debt ..and I've yet to see my enterprise check in the mail. Every day I go and look for my "for the good of the economy" .and "for the good of the nation" check on my ROI and what do I see? Nothing.

Meanwhile Mortimer & Mendel are sitting large and fat for a pathetic performance.
 
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
capping pay is a socialistic thing, that doesn't fly in our country.



So are bailouts. Execs don't have any problem with those.
That is different.
 
This ENTIRE thing has been caused by government "corporations". They set the rules and everyone followed. Interesting how I don't see ANYONE in this thread calling for heads to roll at Fanny or Freddie or the politicians that wrote their rules to allow them to do this.
Big media is doing it's job very well...

As far as CEO compensation, how about Franklin Raines? Former CEO of Fannie that walked away with 10s of millions in bonuses for "doing a good job", but then was investigated for wrong doing and has to pay a paltry fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Raines
Accounting problems, fraudulent assets, etc.

And I'll post this again on the who's and why's of the policy makers in charge:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-08-05/n...nd-freddie-mac/
"Social justice" is at the heart of this scandal.

Only someone with no information on the topic could conclude that this is a free market issue. It lands squarely on the shoulders of government and is a shining example of what happens when government gets too big and the corruption and ineptitude that follows it.
 
Don't worry..the Government will spend it all on people that were irresponsible by borrowing money on homes they couldn't afford, credit cards they couldn't afford to pay etc. That money will be totally wasted. We need to decide if we want to insure that Money Markets survive or JoeSixpack. I vote for Money Markets bc these people have actually saved money.

The execs of these companies were urged and worse to put people in homes irregardless whether they could afford it or not. Is this not known to you guys? I could get political with Fannie/Freddie but i don't want to bring out the BITOT Threadlock.
 
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Whether the war is purely economic ..social ..of of the combat type...the profiteers ..like the stinking vultures that they are ...come to the trough and help themselves.

I say, hang them all. Give us a list. INCLUDE ALL that "helped themselves".
 
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