It was the market that cause the failures

[Pablo]

Tempest - don't worry, you won't wake Gary up. He knows already the whole story....well except he leaves a bunch out.

This will frost your cookies: Bailing out illegals

It's a matter or record that Country Wide was forced to lend to unqualified borrowers, and how about B of A REQUIRING a certain percentage of home loans to illegal aliens? Crazy stuff.....except it's not funny.

 

[PandaBear]

My opinion:

1) Do not bail out. Let those business that does bad investment die, along with its stock price

2) Confiscate all high paying executives of these companies' personal property

3) Let houses be foreclosed, so the market start moving again at a much lower price

4) Government confiscate the Corporate America that violated accounting rules, and sell it back at a better price later and profit from it.

5) Increase interest rate so honest savers can start making money rather than gamble in the stock market.

6) Pay off our deficit.



God I wish we are in a socialist country that runs right, but too bad they rarely do.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Tempest - don't worry, you won't wake Gary up. He knows already the whole story....well except he leaves a bunch out.


I don't think I want anyone left out. I don't care where they are.

Here's the basic distinction I see here.

Some blame those who bought more than they could afford. Easy enough ..until you see that they followed the lead of others who, earlier on in the process, benefited from it.

Some blame those who created the process (allegedly) with good intentions. This can surely be a case of "the road to " " was paved with good intentions".

However, there was a broker (please give yourself the cerebral credit to read into that term) that sat there and enriched himself in the whole process, laughing the entire way to the collision. A "grab bag" of profit and gain ..and now I'm asked to wipe up ..and reward him and put him "back on track".

Sorry to disrupt his life

 

[drivewaytech]

I think I may understand. Let banks and lenders go under. Let the market crash and burn. Let all the foriegn money invested in this spend thrift nation get pulled out. Watch businesses all over the nation start downsizing, laying off, then possibly shut down. Let the evil, unproven capitalist society fall so the

pheniox may rise from the ashes. Or maybe I'm wrong, it's just worth near total finicial collapse to show them Wall Street execs.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Or maybe I'm wrong, it's just worth near total finicial collapse to show them Wall Street execs.


Here's what you fail to acknowledge ..they too have an "entitlement" mentality. They played ..and they need to pay with the rest of us. Very simple concept.

..and if that money is pulled out ..are you saying that it's not "deserved"?? Are we all collectively not "letting the chips fall as they may"??

Just what part of socialism do you support or reject? The part that helps those who (literally) "help themselves" (to the public moneies)???

So, socialism is good ..at least for the favored tier of the society? Wealth needs help? I know ..the crushing burden ..the responsibility for the rabble ...the toil ..

Heck, bailing them out for doing no more than their appointed task (getting rich) surely warrants the support of the entire tax paying population. Consider it a bonus for a job well done.

 

[Tempest]

None of this would have happened if FM and FM had not been put in place by big gov. to medal in the mortgage industry to effect a political outcome.

None of this would have happened if FM and FM had not ACTIVLY GONE AFTER HIGH RISK LOANS TO BOOST THEIR ASSETS IN ORDER TO BOOST THE BONUSES OF THE EXECUTIVES.

This is a GOVERNMENT organization that is directly profiting individuals. No conflict of interest there!!

As far as lobbyists go, FM & FM gave big contributions to those in gov. (can't get more specific here, but would love to). So we have a government corporation giving campaign contributions to those in government. No conflict of interest there!!

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
I think I may understand. Let banks and lenders go under. Let the market crash and burn. Let all the foriegn money invested in this spend thrift nation get pulled out. Watch businesses all over the nation start downsizing, laying off, then possibly shut down. Let the evil, unproven capitalist society fall so the

pheniox may rise from the ashes. Or maybe I'm wrong, it's just worth near total finicial collapse to show them Wall Street execs.


Exactly! All the naysayers have no alternative plans other then to let us go into the great depression part deux.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
None of this would have happened if FM and FM had not been put in place by big gov. to medal in the mortgage industry to effect a political outcome.


See what you made me do??

I won't leave my wallet unattended with you around. I'd get only what I deserved from someone like yourself, correct?

 

[Pablo]

Gary - with all your beating around the bush, you miss the root cause and jump on the band wagon with the press and the pops. The brokers and most of the LEET wigs are opportunists. Fat ones at that. It sickens me.....it was indeed a grand scheme. All in the guise of "helping the poor become homeowners" we get [censored]. You wonder why some folks are sick of wealth redistribution? Because gawd damit, it doesn't work!!!!

 

[Gary Allan]

I've yet to see where what you're suggesting would anything more than others trading places with them.


You can't ..by any sensible stretch of any wage earners imagination ..suggest that there should be support for sustaining millionaires with public bailout money.

Do you really think that makes any sense ..even if you trace this to some fundamental shake down by a given interest ...all I can see is that you're actually supporting some "parity" in public shake down potential?

Yes, you're right. If the bailout doesn't allow millionaire executives to become richer millionaires ...that would be unfair

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Pablo]

I'm not suggesting anything.

I am against a "bailout" per se. Why would you think I am?

I'm against the government telling private companies who they have to loan money to - I could give a khrap for affirmative loans/[censored] part of town loans and all the rest. I am against crooks in ALL walks of life. I'm against loaning money to illegal aliens by force. I'm for arresting people who lied on their loan applications and are now in foreclosure. I'm for arresting any lender who forced the process.

Parity? At this point in time, if we are compelled to hold this toxic waste we better to it the best way we can....and as I already stated above, bassturds should not be paid a bonus if they come for a handout from US.

I'm just asking you to find out when this mess started and it will help your posts.

 

[Gary Allan]

Pablo. I'm not in jail for a very good reason. I don't commit crimes. I have no desire to take your money.

Are you suggesting that I need to see that greed was at work here and it was "evil greed" that led us to this situation?

What you're telling me is that someone constructed a scam that helped out their particular pals to the tune if billions of our money ..and now we're being asked to provide $700B in repairs?

Okay ..I'll go with that.

Boy $10T sure would come in handy now

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
...
The S&L crisis cost everyone one of us $3500 per person (probably more)
...


Where did you find this $3500/person cost from the S&L crisis of the '80s ?

The S&L crisis cost each taxpayer: $345-$512 . Total cost was $86-$128 billion and populations was about 250 million in the late '80s.

"According to the latest General Accounting Office (GAO) financial statement audit of the FDIC, the RTC incurred total costs of$86.4 billion.
... overall S&L clean-up costs since 1986 totaled $156.4 billion, of which taxpayers financed $128.4 billion"

Source: http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/rr1909.htm

 

[Gary Allan]

While my figures are probably pulled out of flawed memory ..the point is ...?????

Quote:
financed $128.4 billion


Was this just added to the debt at the time? ..and are we still paying for it?


..but since your figures are from 1999 ..here's a 2001 reference

Does the story end there? Quiet costs

 

[JHZR2]

You bet we are...

Just another example of mismanagement that comes from the pocket of the responsible folks.

You play the game because you have to... but there are different strategies and skills to play. Some are hail Marys, some are barely motions... some do well and some dont. With each risk comes reward, and the greater risk gives greater reward - standard casino practice... but you dont go to the casino without recognizing that you may well loose it all. Wait... some go thinking they WILL win.

As for executives and CEOs deciding to not work or feel like performing... and folks not wanting the jobs to take them... guess what? There is a large enough distribution of people that we have a situation that for most jobs, especially higher ones, there will always be someone running behind that is willing to take the job. Because its "better", more powerful a spot, etc., etc., there will most always be another person to fulfill a job.

Its like when the doctors had an issue with insurance laws and threatened that all the doctors would leave Pennsylvania... What would happen then? Signing bonuses for new doctors? Are the old ones going to all flock to Florida, dilute their masses, and then expect steady work? Threats of people not playing in certain positions just wont happen given the size of our population, and the sheer numbers of folks waiting on the outside, desiring to come on in and perform.

The only bailout that should occur is protection of personal mortgages performed by people who are willing to WORK for their handout... nobody wants anyone to loose their house if they are willing to WORK for it. But lazy lummoxes who deserve to show off should be SOL. Executives who dined at the troughs more than 99% of the rest, while screwing others over should be required to pay the bill or work hard to recoup the issues (i.e. jail if it makes sense based upon the situation). A bailout that decreases the dollar's value, makes credit more available to consumers (absolutely unnecesary, live within your means), allows executives further bonus pay for more of the same, produces high levels of fees paid to "manage" the bailout, etc. are not desireable to anyone but those who will not learn and will come back and endanger our economy and existence again.

JMH

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
makes credit more available to consumers (absolutely unnecesary, live within your means)

I certainly loath this bailout, but at this point, I don't see a whole lot of options.
Without credit, business will suffer and the housing market will totally collapse devaluing homes even more than they already are, wiping out people's nest egg. Without venture/expansion capital, business will at best stagnate and probably take a serious dive. This equates to massive unemployment and we have the 1930's all over again.
I do think that a bailout is the cheapest long run option, assuming they do it right.
What that right is, is the big question.

Gov. got us into this mess, they will have to get us out. But the best thing they can do is make the most friendly business environment possible to get employment up and get the economy moving again...i.e. lower taxes on business.
Of course this in non-PC as evil businesses must be punished for making money. So like killing cats during the black plague, we will persecute the very entities that are able to pull us out of this.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
I certainly loath this bailout, but at this point, I don't see a whole lot of options.
Without credit, business will suffer and the housing market will totally collapse devaluing homes even more than they already are, wiping out people's nest egg. Without venture/expansion capital, business will at best stagnate and probably take a serious dive. This equates to massive unemployment and we have the 1930's all over again.
I do think that a bailout is the cheapest long run option, assuming they do it right.
What that right is, is the big question.

Gov. got us into this mess, they will have to get us out. But the best thing they can do is make the most friendly business environment possible to get employment up and get the economy moving again...i.e. lower taxes on business.
Of course this in non-PC as evil businesses must be punished for making money. So like killing cats during the black plague, we will persecute the very entities that are able to pull us out of this.


I seriously doubt a bail out will do anything in help. People will sell the bad loan and stop giving out loan again. The only way to "bail out" is hyper inflation, when the fundamental doesn't justify the housing price, devalue dollar so it justify, and let the people who hold dollar lose it all. Fair for the rich and honest people who pay with their salary, bad for those who save money in the bank.

Business will not suffer without credit, the problem is there are too much credit and interest rate is too low, so the bank is trying to make more with financial engineering. There will always be enough credit with the right interest rate, but the government and the wall street don't want high interest rate to reduce home value and have a write off.

Nest egg? They are gone either because dollar devalued or taxed to the size of a rasin from the bail out, you pick the poison.

Employment won't change until things are settled, business don't invest when the risk is high.

Like I said, you bail them out, they get smart and still stop lending out money.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Gov. got us into this mess, they will have to get us out. But the best thing they can do is make the most friendly business environment possible to get employment up and get the economy moving again...i.e. lower taxes on business.
Of course this in non-PC as evil businesses must be punished for making money. So like killing cats during the black plague, we will persecute the very entities that are able to pull us out of this.


All fine and good ...but I'll assure you that next ..10 years ..no matter what/when/however you measure it ..this will be a POORER nation. There is no way you can have an expansionist agenda without a perpetual leaking of standard of living.

So, the solutions are going to mean a loss for the nation as a whole.

Nothing you can pull out of the free enterprise behind will alter that. You can blame it on this or that, but the borderless community is what we're heading for here, and I have no desire to be at equity with Panama or Bangladesh ..or any of the 3rd world ghettos.

If that's the price of "stimulating growth" ..then you can keep it.

 

[Drew99GT]

Ahhhhh, banks need to lend money. That's how they make money. They're not going to stop giving out loans cause then they'd go out of business.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Ahhhhh, banks need to lend money. That's how they make money. They're not going to stop giving out loans cause then they'd go out of business.

+1
Quote:
There is no way you can have an expansionist agenda without a perpetual leaking of standard of living.

I have no idea what this means.