It neds more oomph.

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MGregoir

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Guy I know has a 1996 Cavalier in good mechanical condition, five speed and 2200 SFI pushrod motor with 115 horsepower.

We were talking and trying to figure out what would turn it from a 16.5 second car to a 15 second car as the biggest gains for the least money. Basically, he just wants it to pull a little harder.

He has a shop with a full set of tools (in fact he just painted the car himself yesterday and it looks quite nice) so there's not really many jobs he can't take on. His old man was a hot rodder and taught him how to turn wrench but this is such an offbeat car to modify we're not sure where to start.

What would be the biggest "simple" gains to make off the start, and where to go from there?
 
weight reduction of the vehicle, install very light wheels and tires, synthetic transmission/differential fluids and maybe synthetic engine oil.
 
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Turboing the engine would almost cost as much, and only net as much overall as a full engine swap. 1996 J-Body can take a GM 60 degree engine with only having to fabricate one engine mount, and bringing over the PCM. The wiring would be a pain but it would be a 190 horsepower engine on regular gas with a nice driveable powerband. Turbo on a 115 horsepower engine would put you at that point on premium gas with about as much fun getting it together.

Really, this is just polishing a turd.

The 2200 SFI is such an oddball engine, nobody really makes anything for it, although I have found a Jet PCM for $190 and a camshaft/lifter kit from Mantapart for $225. I think that overall intake/exhaust/pulleys, hotter cam and maybe a hotter PCM would be the most straightforward gains without affecting the daily driver behaviour of the car.

I think just a resonator exhaust and gaming the PCM to think the catalyst is there so it doesn't do anything crazy would help, but I don't know how to trick it. Of course, it's the first year of OBD-II electronics.
 
Do what wantin150 said, maybe a Hypertech programmer or something.

I don't know about turboing a 12 year old engine.
 
The engine is clean and still has 165 psi compression on all cylinders, never overheated, never ingested coolant, no leaks.

I found a different programmer that also can defeat the speed limiter, and I might go half-way with him on it and program my car because I want to adjust the shift points when cruising (eliminate the double downshift going up steep hills, it doesn't ping so I would rather it held third gear rather than spinning 5000 rpm in second). I also want to shift the spark cutoff down to redline rather than 250 rpm above it.
 
The only thing that will take a mid 16 second turd to a 15 second turd is forced induction. Why bother.

1996 cavaliers aren't performance cars!
 
Originally Posted By: MGregoir
Turboing the engine would almost cost as much, and only net as much overall as a full engine swap. 1996 J-Body can take a GM 60 degree engine with only having to fabricate one engine mount, and bringing over the PCM. The wiring would be a pain but it would be a 190 horsepower engine on regular gas with a nice driveable powerband. Turbo on a 115 horsepower engine would put you at that point on premium gas with about as much fun getting it together.

Really, this is just polishing a turd.

The 2200 SFI is such an oddball engine, nobody really makes anything for it, although I have found a Jet PCM for $190 and a camshaft/lifter kit from Mantapart for $225. I think that overall intake/exhaust/pulleys, hotter cam and maybe a hotter PCM would be the most straightforward gains without affecting the daily driver behaviour of the car.

I think just a resonator exhaust and gaming the PCM to think the catalyst is there so it doesn't do anything crazy would help, but I don't know how to trick it. Of course, it's the first year of OBD-II electronics.


A Turbo Fox Mustang can make 400RWHP with a completely stock motor right down to the intake. They are 225HP stock, so about 180 to the tires.

Expensive? Yes, a Turbo setup can be extremely expensive. But it's also the power-adder with the most potential and without swapping to a much larger engine (which it sounds like he doesn't want to do) is going to give the biggest increase in power output.

Why do you think all the Import guys I see at the dragstrip with the 12 and 13 second Civics have Turbo's on them?

They are the best for increasing power on an engine with limited displacement. This is also why the Supra is such a popular car, as it's factory-turbo's powerplant can make a LOT of power.

Ever see a 4-cyl Dodge Caravan run 11's? It's out there :D

A quick look at the SRT-4 Neon shows why Turbo's work.

For CHEAP you can't beat Nitrous. Just don't blow it up.

And to elaborate on the PCM issue you touched on, yes, this is a very valid issue. He would likely need to switch to something like F.A.S.T or Megasquirt.

Is it worth it on a Cavalier? IMHO, no. But in terms of options, it's out there.
 
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Do what wantin150 said, maybe a Hypertech programmer or something.

I don't know about turboing a 12 year old engine.



Hhahhaha, definitely not a Mustang owner.

We routinely do things to our old engines that would make most people cringe
LOL.gif


I've simply seen first-hand how effective a Turbo can be when setup correctly. A friend of mine with an '03 Cobra switched from the factory Eaton supercharger to a pair of twins. Car made close to 800RWHP on pump-gas and only 14lbs of boost. Given that N/A that engine makes ~320HP FLYWHEEL, the 14lbs of boost almost tripled the engine's power output. Impressive to say the least.
 
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Certain Fox Body Mustang engines are different than a Cavalier motor though. Certain years had forged pistons and all of them have 9 to 1 compression - ideal for aftermarket boost. Contrast that with a 2200 GM 4 banger Cav motor. A Cav motor can't handle what a factory forged 302 can handle.

And comparing a Cavalier motor to an 03 + Cobra motor is a joke!
 
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The only thing that will take a mid 16 second turd to a 15 second turd is forced induction. Why bother.

1996 cavaliers aren't performance cars!
Amen no weight reduction or tuning is going to make that much difference.
 
Kind of what I figured, but he threw it out there.

He should just put a pile of stickers on it, that makes cars go faster.

I'll get him for half the programmer so I can use it though...haha.
 
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Certain Fox Body Mustang engines are different than a Cavalier motor though. Certain years had forged pistons and all of them have 9 to 1 compression - ideal for aftermarket boost. Contrast that with a 2200 GM 4 banger Cav motor. A Cav motor can't handle what a factory forged 302 can handle.

And comparing a Cavalier motor to an 03 + Cobra motor is a joke!


Not comparing, just stating that the Turbo has the CAPABILITY to make the most power out of any of the big three power adders.

I'm sure the car could at least double what it makes with a Turbo and still be reliable; 220HP would really wake it up! That being said, not being a GM guy, I am not intimately familiar with that engine and perhaps I am giving the internals too much credit.

And yes, 86-92 had forged TRW pistons from the factory, with the 86 pistons having no valve reliefs.

Any idea on the compression ratio on the Cav?
 
I was talking to a kid with a Civic that had one of those big
F@rt pipe sticking out the back and he told me that it added 100 HP Now if you added these sticker
Jeg's =15hp
Summit = 15 hp
MSD------15 hp
NOS -----50 hp now add a big wing on the back and a F@rt pipe and you now have a 15 second Turd
 
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
I was talking to a kid with a Civic that had one of those big
F@rt pipe sticking out the back and he told me that it added 100 HP Now if you added these sticker
Jeg's =15hp
Summit = 15 hp
MSD------15 hp
NOS -----50 hp now add a big wing on the back and a F@rt pipe and you now have a 15 second Turd


Oh now THAT reminds me of a story :D

There was a kid a few years back who showed up with his "posse" of "thugs" at Shannonville, which is the track we most often run at.

We (Mustang guys) were all standing at the fence and this guy pulls up just to the left of us and gets out of his car, and swaggered to the front of his car where he had popped his hood and you could overhear "check out mah cold air!" as they all oohed and ahhed over the chrome "hot air induction" with conical filter he had installed. It had the prerequisit [censored] cannon on the back, and what appeared to be at least 19" rims on this thing.

The trunk opens, and he pulls out a set of steelies with what appear to be stock rubber on them.

He and his posse are looking our direction with that look of "yeah, it's fast" and the corner-mouth grins going on.

40 minutes later, my buddy Brent, who has a relatively mild H/C/I 302 with ~300,000Km on it, and a Vortec S-Trim blower, is conveniently in line with this guy (this was not planned) and they pull up to the burn-out box. Brent's car was running 11.7 at this point in time, granny-shifted, because it still had the stock T5 in the trans tunnel.

So, kid in the Sunfire dose a reverse-to-first roll (5spd) to "heat" his stock rubber tires. Car chirps and bounces a few times just as Brent begins his 2nd gear burn-out to heat his ET Streets. The look on the kid's face went from "check me out yo!" to "uh oh......."

And they were off!

Brent ran 11.7 @ 12xMph, and the Sunfire posted a blistering 19.9. It was complete and utter humiliation
LOL.gif


His buddies were standing there, mouth's agape, twas quite the site to behold.

The icing on the cake was about an hour later when he ended up running 20-flat and getting beat by an 80's Hyundai Accel. He went home after that
wink.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
I was talking to a kid with a Civic that had one of those big
F@rt pipe sticking out the back and he told me that it added 100 HP Now if you added these sticker
Jeg's =15hp
Summit = 15 hp
MSD------15 hp
NOS -----50 hp now add a big wing on the back and a F@rt pipe and you now have a 15 second Turd


Oh now THAT reminds me of a story :D

There was a kid a few years back who showed up with his "posse" of "thugs" at Shannonville, which is the track we most often run at.

We (Mustang guys) were all standing at the fence and this guy pulls up just to the left of us and gets out of his car, and swaggered to the front of his car where he had popped his hood and you could overhear "check out mah cold air!" as they all oohed and ahhed over the chrome "hot air induction" with conical filter he had installed. It had the prerequisit [censored] cannon on the back, and what appeared to be at least 19" rims on this thing.

The trunk opens, and he pulls out a set of steelies with what appear to be stock rubber on them.

He and his posse are looking our direction with that look of "yeah, it's fast" and the corner-mouth grins going on.

40 minutes later, my buddy Brent, who has a relatively mild H/C/I 302 with ~300,000Km on it, and a Vortec S-Trim blower, is conveniently in line with this guy (this was not planned) and they pull up to the burn-out box. Brent's car was running 11.7 at this point in time, granny-shifted, because it still had the stock T5 in the trans tunnel.

So, kid in the Sunfire dose a reverse-to-first roll (5spd) to "heat" his stock rubber tires. Car chirps and bounces a few times just as Brent begins his 2nd gear burn-out to heat his ET Streets. The look on the kid's face went from "check me out yo!" to "uh oh......."

And they were off!

Brent ran 11.7 @ 12xMph, and the Sunfire posted a blistering 19.9. It was complete and utter humiliation
LOL.gif


His buddies were standing there, mouth's agape, twas quite the site to behold.

The icing on the cake was about an hour later when he ended up running 20-flat and getting beat by an 80's Hyundai Accel. He went home after that
wink.gif

I think I know what his problem was he had his rear wing adjusted for to much drag. R.O.F.L
 
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