ISO-SYN additive package

Motorbike · Dec 5, 2003

Sources long past were where the group II you aked me to reference from is now gone because I have long since deleted but..

Isodewaxing is simply a trademark for the actual catalyst Chevron used or uses that reshapes wax molecules into high quality base oil rather than breaking the stock down into other byproducts like conventional dewaxing . Other catalyst are available I believe .

So, it does not make a group II into a II+ but makes lower feedstocks into group II's .

Here is Chevron's base stock table and they only have one group II+ and I guess if they want they could blend it into the group II's and the CAS# would not reveal it .If you were to peruse their site even Chevron refers to their basestock as group II for the most part when mentioning the ISO "abr" process .

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/baseoils/grp2_typical.shtml

Here is a site to click on many forms of processing that a good read for the most part and I'll look some more for the evidence the Supreme is group II so I'll not be putting my foot in my mouth

. At anyrate , there is not a whole lot of difference between the II and II+ it seems.

http://www.setlaboratories.com/refining-primer.htm

[ December 05, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

Ray H · Dec 5, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Motorbike:
Isodewaxing is simply a trademark for the actual catalyst Chevron used or uses that reshapes wax molecules into high quality base oil rather than breaking the stock down into other byproducts like conventional dewaxing . Other catalyst are available I believe .

So, it [ISODEWAXING] does not make a group II into a II+ but makes lower feedstocks into group II's [emphasis mine] .

To quote a Mobil paper on "Lube Hydrocracking Technology":

"ExxonMobil's Wax Isomerization technology (MWI {TM}) can be used to convert slack wax into lubes to produce Group II or Group III [emphasis mine] baseoils, or to make very high VI(140) blendstocks."

A quote of a Chevron pitch for their ISODEWAXED (TM) base stocks to finished lube formulators states:

"Hydrocracking and ISODEWAXING are refining processes [emphasis mine] that use catalyst and hydrogen at high pressure to make high-quality lubricant base oils. ... Typically, solvent-refined base oils fall into Group I, while hydroprocessed base stocks fall into Group II. ... Thanks to Chevron's proprietary ISODEWAXING technology, Chevron's Group II and Group III base oils have a unique low-wax composition...

While proprietary details between ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco's catalyst-driven hydrogen-isomerized dewaxing techniques undoubtedly differ, I would project the general chemistry is the same. If I understand this statement correctly, since catalytic isomerization can produce Group II and Group III base stocks, it follows that Group II+ would be a product of this process, too, with appropriate manipulation of time, heat, and hydrogen pressure in the reaction vessel.

As to "reshaping" wax molecules into high quality base oils, the term obviates that the molecules are broken apart and rebuilt into entirely different compounds. Double bonds are split, chain lengths are altered, and the molecules are hydrogen saturated by the process of, dare I say it, "synthesis" , to form entirely different products (pure, uniform, paraffinic base oils) from the undesirable waxes and aromatics? (Yes, I am a heretic.)

In my previous post, I mis-spoke stating that the API had officially recognized the Group II+ designation. That is not so. The Group II+ designation has simply become a convenient means of referring to Group II base stocks of higher VI (110-119) and lower volatility than typical Group II base stocks among refiners.

[ December 05, 2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

Drstressor · Dec 5, 2003

Hydrocracking and iso-dewaxing are different processes. Hydrocracking (extreme reduction in the presence of H2 and a catalyst) results is nearly complete saturation of double bonds, reduction of sulfur containing compounds, volatilization of sulfur, hydrocarbon chain cleavage and rearrangement. This produces a high VI, oxidation resistant base stock with properties similar to a Group IV PAO. Iso-dewaxing converts long linear alkanes (waxes) into branched chain iso-paraffin molecules with the same molecule mass (isomerization). The branched forms are less able to interact with other molecules at low temperatures. The result is a significant reduction in the pour point without a major effect on the VI.

The wax removed during processing of conventional motor oil and other lubricants is an excellent starting material for the production of Group III base stocks via hydrocracking.

Robbie Alexander · Dec 5, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
Both "Group II" and "Group III" base stocks result from hydroisomerization (heated and circulated through a catalyst grid in the presence of high pressure hydrogen gas) - Group III has just been brewed longer in the pressure cooker.

Do you know HOW MANY ways a basestock can be converted into a group II or II+ ? How many refining methods? I mean are there other methods, or is it a basic formula to "make a cake" for example?

Drstressor · Dec 5, 2003

Hydrocracking is a single process that was developed by Chevron. The major factors affecting the final product are the duration or intensity of the treatment (longer = lower yield and more $) and the quality of the starting material. Slack wax is supposed to be a better starting material than solvent extracted Group I base oils. Less treatment is required in order to get to the final end product. As I understand it, you can produce a Group II stock by solvent extraction, fractional distillation, and hydro-finishing (a milder treatment that saturates double bonds and volatilizes sulfur). Group II+ and Group III base stocks require severe hydro cracking as described.

Bror Jace · Dec 5, 2003

Thanks for the technical tidbits. But I'm still a touch confused. Can anyone reconcile these two passages:

"The Group II+ designation has simply become a convenient means of referring to Group II base stocks of higher VI (110-119) and lower volatility than typical Group II base stocks among refiners."

and

"As I understand it, you can produce a Group II stock by solvent extraction, fractional distillation, and hydro-finishing (a milder treatment that saturates double bonds and volatilizes sulfur). Group II+ and Group III base stocks require severe hydro cracking as described."

--- Bror Jace

Robbie Alexander · Dec 5, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Drstressor:
Hydrocracking is a single process that was developed by Chevron. ----

Okay but they all use it..hummm
My question is:
1. How many process ways to convert basestock into a Group II or III?
2. How many BaseStock oils can be converted to II and III, and what are their respective methods?

Drstressor · Dec 5, 2003

I'm sure that this link has been posted before, but it explains the differences in how the various base oils are manufactured:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/baseoils/docs/ebot.pdf

A Group II base stock can be produced either by mildly hydrocracking a solvent refined Group I stock (older methods) or by an all hydrocracking route (newer method)that does not use solvent extraction. The newer method produces both a higher quality product and better overall yield. Many manufactures produce a very similar low viscosity, high VI, low volatility Group II+ (almost Group III) product that is blended with other Group II base oils in their OW and 5W finished products.

This board seems to refer to oils made from Group II and Group II+ base stocks (i.e. Chevron Supreme, Delo, and Penzoil) as Group II+. I believe the term really only applies to base oils. Chemically, the main difference between Group II and Group III Unconventional Base Oils (UCBO) is the greater paraffinic vs naphthalenic content of the latter classification that is the result of more severe hydrocracking.

[ December 06, 2003, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

Ken2 · Dec 6, 2003

From "Lube Report," June 18, 2003
--quote--
Citing demand from the evolving U.S. motor oil market, ChevronTexaco announced this week that it is resuming production of Group II-plus base oils at its Richmond, Calif., refinery.

The plant – which already produces Group II and Group III stocks – will add a single cut of Group II-plus, named Neutral Oil 5R and designed specifically for use in 5W engine oils. These oils have been claiming a growing share of the U.S. engine oil market, at the same time as specification upgrades – the GF-3 spec adopted in 2001 and GF-4, which is scheduled to go into effect next year – require use of higher quality base oils.

The Richmond refinery first produced Neutral Oil 5R in 1998 but stopped doing so two years ago in order to increase production of Group II. Officials acknowledged that the re-introduction of Group II-plus will sacrifice overall volume – it requires more refining than Group II – but maintained that capacity creep will make up for the loss.

ChevronTexaco joins three other suppliers in the North American Group II-plus market: ExxonMobil, Motiva and Petro-Canada Lubricants. [Motiva is the Shell/Saudi Refining joint venture]

“We had said that we need to be a full-line supplier to our customers on the West Coast, so we planned to review [production of Group II-plus]. But our internal customer [Havoline] was hounding us, and our other customers were getting pretty desperate. It probably moved up our timeline by three to six months.”

ChevronTexaco said the major lubricant additive suppliers have already qualified its Group II-plus product for use in GF-3 engine oils, so blenders can use Neutral Oil 5R without incurring additional testing costs.
http://www.LubeReport.com/e_article000160030.cfm?x=a1Q3bVh,a12MT5WC

Ken

[ December 06, 2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]

BlueOvalFitter · Dec 6, 2003

Heres my input on Chevron Supreme;
1) Wal-Mart sells it for $1.08 a quart
2) I see alot of people using it
3) Hence,price and popularity is why I use it

JohnBrowning · Dec 6, 2003

Yes it did partially answere your question!! IF you look at the link it clearly shows the amounts of boron and moly in the oil! The product is not going to differ based on the volume of the container! ISO-SYN is the name CHerons marketing department has given their GII+ base stock.

quote:

dare I say it, "synthesis" ,

[ December 06, 2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

Drstressor · Dec 6, 2003

According to their literature, the 5R base stock is the only Group II product Chevron makes. It is blended with other Group II cuts to produce the different viscosities in their Chevron Supreme finished product line. The Iso-Syn term is likely a derivative of their iso-dewaxing procedure. One could argue that isomerization of linear paraffins to iso-paraffins is a synthetic procedure.

Drstressor · Dec 6, 2003

Sorry, I meant to say that 5R is the only Group II PLUS product that they make. I wish we had an edit function.

CLguy · Dec 6, 2003

the edit funtion:

there are so many oils that i want to try and analyst

(. chevron is certaintly a great oil.

Robbie Alexander · Dec 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Drstressor:
-*-*-*-* Chemically, the main difference between Group II and Group III Unconventional Base Oils (UCBO) is the greater paraffinic vs naphthalenic content of the latter classification that is the result of more severe hydrocracking.

So napthalenic content of an oil makes it a group III, or a Higher amount (ratio) ?

How can a group II be hydrocracked or hydrotreated to the max and still be group II or IIa ?
Or more properly,
What is the MAXIMUM level of treatment or level before a oil is converted from a II into a III ?

Ken2 · Dec 6, 2003

Group I - Viscosity index between 80 and 120, and less than 90% saturates and/or more than 0.03% sulfur.

Group II - Viscosity index between 80 and 119, and 90% saturates or greater and 0.03% sulfur or less.

(Unofficial Group II+ - Viscosity Index 110-119 and 90% saturates or greater and 0.03% sulfur or less.)
(No such thing as Group IIa)

Group III - Viscosity index of 120 or higher, and 90% saturates or greater and 0.03% sulfur or less.

Ken

Drstressor · Dec 6, 2003

Yep, it's the VI that distinguishes between the ratings. Branched hydrocarbon chains (iso-paraffins and PAOs) have a higher VI than ring structures (naphthalenes). Severe hydrocracking converts naphthalenes to iso-paraffins. Once the VI exceeds 120, they call the base oil Group III.

CLguy -- Thanks for showing me the edit function.

Bror Jace · Dec 6, 2003

Well, it looks like Chevron Supreme is actually "only" a Group II oil.

Makes sense that they wouldn't be able to retail the stuff for $1.08 per quart if it was Group II+ ... even at Walmart. :shrug

Still good oil ... but being a Group II+ would put it in rare company.

So is Pennzoil the only company currently packaging a Group II+ (base) oil as their "regular" conventional?

--- Bror Jace

Robbie Alexander · Dec 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Drstressor:
-*-*-* Once the VI exceeds 120, they call the base oil Group III.
----

What, 120... I don't buy that.
Common... I just started using a new oil and it is suppose to be a Basestock Group II or II+ and it has a VI of 150. What's up! there's gotta be more to it than just that.

Ray H · Dec 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
What, 120... I don't buy that. Common... I just started using a new oil and it is suppose to be a Basestock Group II or II+ and it has a VI of 150. What's up! there's gotta be more to it than just that.

Robbie, the answer should be obvious: Viscosity Index Improver - part of the finished lube oil's additive package.

[ December 07, 2003, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

ISO-SYN additive package

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