Is this the price for Direct Injection?

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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Marine GDI and road DDI learned the hard way that those injectors require some serious quality in engineering, construction, fuel quality, and filtering to survive.

The E-ticket for our Cummins engines is 2-micron fuel filters, OTR water trap, and TCW3 in the tank.


I heard the same thing for my 2004 VW, which had unit injectors running at something like 27,000psi. I only ran factory OEM fuel filters; after 100k I doubled the change interval from 20k to 40k. Sold it, still running on factory injectors, at 314k. I always thought about upgrading to Cat filters but ultimately didn't bother. Heck I stopped checking the filter for water, as I never found any when I did.

Undoubtedly your Cummins will flow more fuel than my 1.9L but are the injectors that touchy?
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
..use the best fuels you can, Top Tier here in the U.S., ..


The OP doesn't need to worry about that part: EU fuels are cleaner, so are fuels in Japan. Not that NA is too far behind, but even Albania can brag about it's lower sulfur content in the fuel. AU is a bit below US in this regard, yet they have no problems there too.
Some GDI designs are simply weak. That was a mature Messerschmitt WWII tech, BMW is still catching up in XXI century
 
Originally Posted By: supton


I heard the same thing for my 2004 VW, which had unit injectors running at something like 27,000psi. I only ran factory OEM fuel filters; after 100k I doubled the change interval from 20k to 40k. Sold it, still running on factory injectors, at 314k. I always thought about upgrading to Cat filters but ultimately didn't bother. Heck I stopped checking the filter for water, as I never found any when I did.

Undoubtedly your Cummins will flow more fuel than my 1.9L but are the injectors that touchy?


When I learned that they check the machining quality of the internal injector parts with an electron microscope, I pretty much stopped giving them any benefit of the doubt.

Without a minimum 5-micron filtering, bad things can and have happened. Early 6.7 filtering was insufficient and injectors/engines suffered. The new dual-media filters used, and the "severe service" pre-filter have done a lot to minimize those issues.

Any junk gets in those injectors, and they will not hear anything about it.
 
I've replaced 3 DI injectors so far in my 335. Car has 150,000 miles.

I don't think it's as doom and gloom as some of the codgers suggest.
 
Thanks for all your advice guys. Reassuring that you don't think I've damaged the cat and I will look into using an occasional injector cleaner in the tank-I can get STP injector cleaner over here-any good?
Fuel over here is pretty good with a minimum of 95 octane and I always use Castrol Magnatec low saps oil as does my local dealer.
Service advisor told me that injectors in DI engines operate in a hostile environment as they are in combustion chamber so are more prone to failure than port injectors but this might be bull. Still don't think they should fail after 27000 miles.
If anyone has any feedback on good brand of injector cleaner I would appreciate it.
 
Originally Posted By: Fredbear
If anyone has any feedback on good brand of injector cleaner I would appreciate it.


As DBMaster posted below, any brand with this ingredient will serve you well...


Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Sounds like running some PEA cleaner through every few months might be worthwhile after all.
 
STP does not have the right PEA detergent. Here in the USA, Techron by Chevron and Gumout (Has to have REGANE, which is their version of PEA)as the easy to obtain injector cleaners.
 
Originally Posted By: Fredbear
Service advisor told me that injectors in DI engines operate in a hostile environment as they are in combustion chamber so are more prone to failure than port injectors but this might be bull. Still don't think they should fail after 27000 miles.


True that they are in a much more hostile environment but they are engineered to function properly.
 
BMW makes some very very nice cars...but they are also un-reliable and expensive/difficult to repair. Issues like this are part of the deal with BMW sad to say.

There may be BMWs that can get 100k trouble free...but I've never seen one. Very nice cars though...
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
STP does not have the right PEA detergent. Here in the USA, Techron by Chevron and Gumout (Has to have REGANE, which is their version of PEA)as the easy to obtain injector cleaners.


Pep Boys sells Redline SI-1
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
STP does not have the right PEA detergent. Here in the USA, Techron by Chevron and Gumout (Has to have REGANE, which is their version of PEA)as the easy to obtain injector cleaners.


Pep Boys sells Redline SI-1
smile.gif



Yes they do, but there is not one of them in my state. But O'Reillys has it also. I was thinking more of something you can pick up at any of your "one stop" retailers versus automotive specific stores.
 
I buy either Gumout All-in-One or Chevron Techron, depending upon price. I'm only using it every 3-5K miles. Cost is just under $5 a bottle. A bottle is more than adequate to treat my 14 gallon tank. I add it while fueling to stir it up a bit and then I'll run the tank down to just below 1/4 before refilling with plain gas. I also buy my gas at QT or Shell. Both sell Top Tier gas and are competitively priced in my area. Only time will tell regarding Mazda's "solution" to intake valve deposits.
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I laughed when i read you expected 100k trouble-free miles from a BMW. Maybe 10k miles.... but 100k, yeah right!

But agreed with the others, can't blame this one on DI. Carbon buildup is the major issue associated with DI, unless it is accompanied by port injection.


not sure why you are laughing....doesn't pretty much EVERY make and model easily hit 100k now days? What are you driving a Lada or Yugo....lol
 
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I laughed when i read you expected 100k trouble-free miles from a BMW. Maybe 10k miles.... but 100k, yeah right!

But agreed with the others, can't blame this one on DI. Carbon buildup is the major issue associated with DI, unless it is accompanied by port injection.


not sure why you are laughing....doesn't pretty much EVERY make and model easily hit 100k now days? What are you driving a Lada or Yugo....lol


No, not every make and model will get to 100k "Trouble Free". Some brands are almost boat like in their ability to nickel and dime owners. BMW has some models that are like that. Here in the USA you will have a hard time finding a BMW owner that keeps their high end Beemer (especially V12) when the warranty expires after paying for one repair. Land Rover and Jag are other luxury brand that are notorious for creating stationary driveway art out of a vehicle.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Fredbear

Fuel over here is pretty good with a minimum of 95 octane


Your fuel is pretty good, no worries there, but octane ratings vary with region--the number you list is RON but the US&Canada uses AKI. Same function but different numbers. Just in case you didn't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Quote:

Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2
In most countries, including Australia, New Zealand and all of those in Europe,[citation needed] the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Posted Octane Number (PON).

Difference between RON, MON, and AKI
Because of the 8 to 12 octane number difference between RON and MON noted above, the AKI shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 6 octane numbers lower than elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. This difference between RON and MON is known as the fuel's Sensitivity,[4] and is not typically published for those countries that use the Anti-Knock Index labelling system.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Here in the USA you will have a hard time finding a BMW owner that keeps their high end Beemer (especially V12) when the warranty expires after paying for one repair.


I never knew that BMW built a V12 motorcycle. Wow!
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Come on, very few people know the difference between "i" and "ee"


I learned in the 80's that if you're talking about the cars it's "Bimmer" and if you're talking about the motorcycles it's "Beemer."

Is that correct?
 
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