What year did G.M go to roller lifters in the buicks? In Fla temps run a HDEO 15w-40.Delo 400, Rotella,Delvac 1300.
Is this a good oil and additive for my new engine?
- Thread starter Robk46
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Came across this article about ZINC and the different types used in motor oils. Seems like a lot like a snake oil sales pitch. What do you guys think? They're talking about high spring pressure race engines, I assume.
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/zinc
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/zinc
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Originally Posted By: Robk46
Wow, I learned something! So the 5w40 is a synthetic oil engineered for diesel engines.
I don't think this is necessarily true. There are quite a few Euro gasoline engines which specify 5w-40 oils as well.
Wow, I learned something! So the 5w40 is a synthetic oil engineered for diesel engines.
I don't think this is necessarily true. There are quite a few Euro gasoline engines which specify 5w-40 oils as well.
I don't believe it... BuickGN hasn't responded to this thread yet! This is severely damaging my theory that he can smell GN threads with his computer turned off!
Seriously, I'm sure he could give you some info on the areas of the Buick 3.8 turbo that stress the oil and oiling system.
Personally, with a more nearly GN, I'd be inclined to look at the HDEO 5w40s as Johnny already suggested.
Seriously, I'm sure he could give you some info on the areas of the Buick 3.8 turbo that stress the oil and oiling system.
Personally, with a more nearly GN, I'd be inclined to look at the HDEO 5w40s as Johnny already suggested.
What mods and how many miles do you have?
For a bone stock engine high ZDDP isn't necessary. Most of the factory springs I've pulled out have barely 65psi pressure by 80,000 miles.
The stock oiling system leaves a lot to be desired. Buick didn't change the pump or much of anything for that matter for the turbo. In the development they had an issue with the oil pressure idiot light coming on when new due to the turbo feed. The solution was to use a different sending unit that triggered at 2psi.
Run a quality 15w-40 HDEO if stock to fairly modded. Run a PF-52 oversized filter or equivilent. If you're running a larger flat tappet cam or the 100lb springs, make ZDDP a priority.
Remember that these things with the stock turbo and mostly stock everything will make 500lbs of torque at 2,500rpm at the crank fully tuned and they need an oil with a higher HTHS than most 5w-30s can deliver.
More important than the oil, don't do anything with it until you have a scan tool and a way to monitor knock. I broke many parts when I only ran 12s yet now that I can tune mine is pretty reliable deep into the 10s on the same factory parts.
There are so many things to cover, I don't know where to start but I'm more than happy to help out.
For a bone stock engine high ZDDP isn't necessary. Most of the factory springs I've pulled out have barely 65psi pressure by 80,000 miles.
The stock oiling system leaves a lot to be desired. Buick didn't change the pump or much of anything for that matter for the turbo. In the development they had an issue with the oil pressure idiot light coming on when new due to the turbo feed. The solution was to use a different sending unit that triggered at 2psi.
Run a quality 15w-40 HDEO if stock to fairly modded. Run a PF-52 oversized filter or equivilent. If you're running a larger flat tappet cam or the 100lb springs, make ZDDP a priority.
Remember that these things with the stock turbo and mostly stock everything will make 500lbs of torque at 2,500rpm at the crank fully tuned and they need an oil with a higher HTHS than most 5w-30s can deliver.
More important than the oil, don't do anything with it until you have a scan tool and a way to monitor knock. I broke many parts when I only ran 12s yet now that I can tune mine is pretty reliable deep into the 10s on the same factory parts.
There are so many things to cover, I don't know where to start but I'm more than happy to help out.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I don't believe it... BuickGN hasn't responded to this thread yet! This is severely damaging my theory that he can smell GN threads with his computer turned off!
Seriously, I'm sure he could give you some info on the areas of the Buick 3.8 turbo that stress the oil and oiling system.
Personally, with a more nearly GN, I'd be inclined to look at the HDEO 5w40s as Johnny already suggested.
No kidding. I didn't even take the time to post a smart [censored] reply in the nooks and crannies thread when I saw your link lol.
I don't believe it... BuickGN hasn't responded to this thread yet! This is severely damaging my theory that he can smell GN threads with his computer turned off!
Seriously, I'm sure he could give you some info on the areas of the Buick 3.8 turbo that stress the oil and oiling system.
Personally, with a more nearly GN, I'd be inclined to look at the HDEO 5w40s as Johnny already suggested.
No kidding. I didn't even take the time to post a smart [censored] reply in the nooks and crannies thread when I saw your link lol.
Just noticed this was a new engine. Whatever you do, don't run it easy. Keep boost in the normal 15psi range but drive it as you would if it wasn't breaking in.
I'm not sure if you remember Ken Duttweiler but I was at his shop one time and his exact words were break in the cam, change the oil, and leave rubber down the driveway.
You did run the cam in for 30 minutes and change the oil and filter, right?
I'm not sure if you remember Ken Duttweiler but I was at his shop one time and his exact words were break in the cam, change the oil, and leave rubber down the driveway.
You did run the cam in for 30 minutes and change the oil and filter, right?
Yes. We broke it in with straight 30wt, Lucas break in oil, and the cam lobes covered in the lube that came with the cam. I've posted on Turbobuicks.com and Turbobuick.com a lot over the years, but wanted to see what this site had to offer. It seems everyone over there had an opinion about oil, some of them not based on any facts. Here are the specs on the engine:
Stock 109 block bored .020 over, stock heads. Crank turned .020 under on the journals, and .010 under on the mains. New CB1228P rod and MS960P mains. Durabond BP13T teflon coated cam bearings. Wiseco forged pistons. 204/214 cam and new lifters. Comp cams 979 springs with cups. Fully ported stock turbo. . . We have 21PSI of oil pressure in gear at idle, and 52PSI at 4900 RPM in gear on 5w30 with 400 miles on the engine. We broke it in on the boost right after the break in oil was changed. No smoke and it runs very well.
Stock 109 block bored .020 over, stock heads. Crank turned .020 under on the journals, and .010 under on the mains. New CB1228P rod and MS960P mains. Durabond BP13T teflon coated cam bearings. Wiseco forged pistons. 204/214 cam and new lifters. Comp cams 979 springs with cups. Fully ported stock turbo. . . We have 21PSI of oil pressure in gear at idle, and 52PSI at 4900 RPM in gear on 5w30 with 400 miles on the engine. We broke it in on the boost right after the break in oil was changed. No smoke and it runs very well.
We have a couple of oil leaks I need to address, and I'm going to check the torque on the exhaust bolts and head bolts today. I'm also going to check the oil pump housing, since I pushed down on the shaft with the drill pretty hard when I was priming it, and I'm sure I scored up the oil pump. We'll be changing the oil to 5w40 as well.
Originally Posted By: Robk46
We have a couple of oil leaks I need to address, and I'm going to check the torque on the exhaust bolts and head bolts today. I'm also going to check the oil pump housing, since I pushed down on the shaft with the drill pretty hard when I was priming it, and I'm sure I scored up the oil pump. We'll be changing the oil to 5w40 as well.
I wouldn't worry about swapping the filter housing on the pump. You have better than stock oil pressure even on the light oil. The clearance between the gears and that plate is the single most important clearance for oil pressure. I've had pressure drop by 15psi at idle just from accidentally using a thicker gasket there.
Sounds like a stockish build minus the cam and springs. You definately need the ZDDP though. How's that cam working with stock heads? I've run ported stock heads and GN1s with a stock cam but never the other way around.
One thing for sure, if you made it this far, chances are you're good. Most of these things fail in the first 500 miles and it's a block issue, not a cam or ZDDP issue as you probably already know.
We have a couple of oil leaks I need to address, and I'm going to check the torque on the exhaust bolts and head bolts today. I'm also going to check the oil pump housing, since I pushed down on the shaft with the drill pretty hard when I was priming it, and I'm sure I scored up the oil pump. We'll be changing the oil to 5w40 as well.
I wouldn't worry about swapping the filter housing on the pump. You have better than stock oil pressure even on the light oil. The clearance between the gears and that plate is the single most important clearance for oil pressure. I've had pressure drop by 15psi at idle just from accidentally using a thicker gasket there.
Sounds like a stockish build minus the cam and springs. You definately need the ZDDP though. How's that cam working with stock heads? I've run ported stock heads and GN1s with a stock cam but never the other way around.
One thing for sure, if you made it this far, chances are you're good. Most of these things fail in the first 500 miles and it's a block issue, not a cam or ZDDP issue as you probably already know.
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Originally Posted By: Robk46
My son and I recently rebuild the engine is his '86 Buick Grand National. For those of you who don't know what it is, the powerplant in this car is a 3.8 liter intercooled/turbocharged flat tappet cammed OHV engine. The original factory oil recommendations were 10w30 or 5w30 for colder climates. We live in Florida, so 10w30 is a natural choice, but the oils are so much better than they used to be, I was thinking of using Pennzoil conventional 5w30 year round for the better flow at startup, along with 5-6oz of Lucas TB Zinc plus to protect the flat tappet cam. TB Zinc Plus is a pint that delivers 38,000 PPM Zinc, so I figured 1oz per quart should cover me. What do you guys think?
Great car, I've got an 87 GN. You should be running a synthetic oil, though. I run Redline because it has all the flat tappet protection you'll ever need. I run the 10W/30. Don't use the racing oils since there are little on no additives.
My son and I recently rebuild the engine is his '86 Buick Grand National. For those of you who don't know what it is, the powerplant in this car is a 3.8 liter intercooled/turbocharged flat tappet cammed OHV engine. The original factory oil recommendations were 10w30 or 5w30 for colder climates. We live in Florida, so 10w30 is a natural choice, but the oils are so much better than they used to be, I was thinking of using Pennzoil conventional 5w30 year round for the better flow at startup, along with 5-6oz of Lucas TB Zinc plus to protect the flat tappet cam. TB Zinc Plus is a pint that delivers 38,000 PPM Zinc, so I figured 1oz per quart should cover me. What do you guys think?
Great car, I've got an 87 GN. You should be running a synthetic oil, though. I run Redline because it has all the flat tappet protection you'll ever need. I run the 10W/30. Don't use the racing oils since there are little on no additives.
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
No kidding. I didn't even take the time to post a smart [censored] reply in the nooks and crannies thread when I saw your link lol.
And I for one was deeply hurt by that....
I'm sure it kept you up all night.
That thread is the result of coming home from the dentist on vicotin. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
No kidding. I didn't even take the time to post a smart [censored] reply in the nooks and crannies thread when I saw your link lol.
And I for one was deeply hurt by that....
I'm sure it kept you up all night.
That thread is the result of coming home from the dentist on vicotin. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Rubber and neoprene/viton everywhere. No leaks! Shopping for 5w40 right now. They're all synthetic, Delo, Valvoline and Rotella are my choices. Trying to find some DOAs on them . . .
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Rubber and neoprene/viton everywhere. No leaks! Shopping for 5w40 right now. They're all synthetic, Delo, Valvoline and Rotella are my choices. Trying to find some DOAs on them . . .
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Rubber and neoprene/viton everywhere. No leaks! Shopping for 5w40 right now. They're all synthetic, Delo, Valvoline and Rotella are my choices. Trying to find some DOAs on them . . .
Cork will seal much better on the oil pan and valvecovers. Duttweiler used to offer a 20 bolt cork pan gasket just because the rubber ones leaked so bad.
I was lucky this time around, one of the few people with a leak free girdle.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Robk46
Cam runs fine with stock heads. It's got a nice power band, and really comes alive above 2000rpm. We now have 450 miles with just a couple of small leaks that turned out to be a poorly tightend water hose and valve cover gasket. The aftermarket lifters are noisier than the stockers, and I'm thinking of going back and measuring lifter preload again when I re-torque the heads.
Nice. I've run that cam before and that one along with the Lunati 200-200 had a clatter supposedly due to the faster ramp speeds. I set my preload at .020 usually. The current 218-218 Comp cam is quiet as stock at the same preload and I've always used GM lifters. Cork or rubber valvecover gaskets?
Rubber and neoprene/viton everywhere. No leaks! Shopping for 5w40 right now. They're all synthetic, Delo, Valvoline and Rotella are my choices. Trying to find some DOAs on them . . .
Cork will seal much better on the oil pan and valvecovers. Duttweiler used to offer a 20 bolt cork pan gasket just because the rubber ones leaked so bad.
I was lucky this time around, one of the few people with a leak free girdle.
I don't seam to have a problem with the rubber sealing. I use the heavy duty valve cover gaskets, and the rubber oil pan gasket has never let me down.
Valvoline Maxlife 10-30 Synthetic with a half quart of GM or Comp Cams Engine Break-In Oil would make an Excellent combo.
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