Is Royal purple worth the extra $$?

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One thing though that I have wondered about Max Gear,if it's dual rated GL4/GL5,does it have enough EP additives to protect a rear differential while at the same time being gentle enough for a yellow metal synchronized manual transmission?
 
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
No retort to Al's UOA from the RP supporters? They picked now to bow out? Interesting. I'm left to conclude that RP can not produce better UOA than regular OTC oil. Wait. I already knew that.

Let's see in the 9+ years I've been on BITOG I have read literally thousands of UOA reports and I do UOAs on my personal vehicles virtually every oil change and in all that time I have probably seen maybe 10 or less horrible UOAs. Even then in those bad UOAs not all of them if any were the oils fault.
As I have said before even the most cheapest API certified motor oil will in all likelihood give you a long healthy engine life. So why do many of us here choose to pay more for motor oil? Because we choose to equate "synthetic" oil to be better than conventional oil thus wanting "better" for our substantial investment(I.E. we rarely see someone using supertech oil on a brand new car but usually its on an old beater car).
Why do I choose to spend extra $$ on Royal Purple? Do I think its a better oil than other synthetics? Yes absolutely. Do I think its going to give me better longevity? Yes if I'm keeping the car for over a million miles but no if I'm only keeping it for 300,000 miles. ANY modern oil will do that!! I CHOOSE to use Royal Purple because I have NEVER used an oil that gives me a combination of a little more power AND my engines are the quietest/smoothest on Royal Purple. To me those two reasons are good enough to warrant the extra $$ spent on motor oil.

I didn't realize an oil could produce more power. I switched to RP two months ago and 4000 miles later, I haven't noticed any difference (nor was I expecting any). I agree with you on the quiet part.

Yes it can. I own a speed shop in North Providence and am fortunate enough to own a dyno machine that shows a little hp increase(~2-3 hp). We have another 100 or so dyno'd engines on RP that show that as well. We have around 90-92% success rate with RP increasing HP. Usually average is around 3hp. Not a lot but in a race every littlle bit counts.
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
No retort to Al's UOA from the RP supporters? They picked now to bow out? Interesting. I'm left to conclude that RP can not produce better UOA than regular OTC oil. Wait. I already knew that.

Let's see in the 9+ years I've been on BITOG I have read literally thousands of UOA reports and I do UOAs on my personal vehicles virtually every oil change and in all that time I have probably seen maybe 10 or less horrible UOAs. Even then in those bad UOAs not all of them if any were the oils fault.
As I have said before even the most cheapest API certified motor oil will in all likelihood give you a long healthy engine life. So why do many of us here choose to pay more for motor oil? Because we choose to equate "synthetic" oil to be better than conventional oil thus wanting "better" for our substantial investment(I.E. we rarely see someone using supertech oil on a brand new car but usually its on an old beater car).
Why do I choose to spend extra $$ on Royal Purple? Do I think its a better oil than other synthetics? Yes absolutely. Do I think its going to give me better longevity? Yes if I'm keeping the car for over a million miles but no if I'm only keeping it for 300,000 miles. ANY modern oil will do that!! I CHOOSE to use Royal Purple because I have NEVER used an oil that gives me a combination of a little more power AND my engines are the quietest/smoothest on Royal Purple. To me those two reasons are good enough to warrant the extra $$ spent on motor oil.

I didn't realize an oil could produce more power. I switched to RP two months ago and 4000 miles later, I haven't noticed any difference (nor was I expecting any). I agree with you on the quiet part.

Yes it can. I own a speed shop in North Providence and am fortunate enough to own a dyno machine that shows a little hp increase(~2-3 hp). We have another 100 or so dyno'd engines on RP that show that as well. We have around 90-92% success rate with RP increasing HP. Usually average is around 3hp. Not a lot but in a race every littlle bit counts.


Listen to the man!

I agree with all the posts deven makes here.

Should also point out that thinner engine oils DO give engines SLIGHTLY more power. Not sure why Bugatti did not know this, when they put 20W-50 in Veyron (?? uncertain.)

Thicker oil creates more internal resistance, and drag on engine parts..
 
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Also. Can we get some links to that "cheaper than Walmart" Royal Purple? Please? Thank you.

I want to believe.

Quietest motor oil I ever used. That, and Redline. This is now why they are now blended, in my engine..
 
Originally Posted By: deven
You got the short version answer. I'm done with this thread.


Originally Posted By: deven
I'm moving on as well after this reply. Merry Christmas and thanks for your support in this thread!!


Originally Posted By: deven

Yes it can. I own a speed shop in North Providence and am fortunate enough to own a dyno machine that shows a little hp increase(~2-3 hp). We have another 100 or so dyno'd engines on RP that show that as well. We have around 90-92% success rate with RP increasing HP. Usually average is around 3hp. Not a lot but in a race every littlle bit counts.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I'm running their gearbox oil in my Bummer with good results and it was quite competitively priced at time.


For me, this is the best post in this thread.

Either Caterham has mistakenly shared something in his personal life with us, or it is a misspelling.
 
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne

Should also point out that thinner engine oils DO give engines SLIGHTLY more power. Not sure why Bugatti did not know this, when they put 20W-50 in Veyron (?? uncertain.)



Maybe just maybe Bugatti did a little testing of their own and decided they'd rather give up the 2-3 HP for a little better engine protection. Just a thought. No one here knows why [unless they work for Bugatti and have the inside scoop, if they do I'm all ears]. Otherwise all the rebuttals will be just more speculation and opinions. That's my hunch, nothing more.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
No retort to Al's UOA from the RP supporters? They picked now to bow out? Interesting. I'm left to conclude that RP can not produce better UOA than regular OTC oil. Wait. I already knew that.

Let's see in the 9+ years I've been on BITOG I have read literally thousands of UOA reports and I do UOAs on my personal vehicles virtually every oil change and in all that time I have probably seen maybe 10 or less horrible UOAs. Even then in those bad UOAs not all of them if any were the oils fault.
As I have said before even the most cheapest API certified motor oil will in all likelihood give you a long healthy engine life. So why do many of us here choose to pay more for motor oil? Because we choose to equate "synthetic" oil to be better than conventional oil thus wanting "better" for our substantial investment(I.E. we rarely see someone using supertech oil on a brand new car but usually its on an old beater car).
Why do I choose to spend extra $$ on Royal Purple? Do I think its a better oil than other synthetics? Yes absolutely. Do I think its going to give me better longevity? Yes if I'm keeping the car for over a million miles but no if I'm only keeping it for 300,000 miles. ANY modern oil will do that!! I CHOOSE to use Royal Purple because I have NEVER used an oil that gives me a combination of a little more power AND my engines are the quietest/smoothest on Royal Purple. To me those two reasons are good enough to warrant the extra $$ spent on motor oil.


Million mile cars. As I have read this thread, that's the question that has been nagging me.

Popular Mechanics ran a Million Mile Club article a couple years ago. At the time there were 9 members. I've recently read about another addition, a '95 Toyota T100 in Southern Indiana.

What we don't know about all but one of these cars, is what motor oil they use. The one we do know is a 1990 BMW 325i that was bought new by Mobil, and used as a test bed to prove how well Mobil 1 would protect an engine. Oil was changed per BMW recommended maintenance schedule, at 7,500 miles.

Another member of the million mile club is a 1990 Accord, owned by a guy in Maine. This one should be familiar to many, as Honda ran a lot of ads in car magazines about it. The only clue I have found on his oil use, is that he always used the same brand motor oil. Oh, and one article I read stated the total maintenance that had been done. Quick math revealed that oil was changed about every 6,500 miles.

Then the T100. The article I read about this one says the owner had all the service done at the local Toyota dealership. It is possible that this engine got TGMO. But it seems just as likely that it got Penzoil. Or Mobil 1. Or whatever the dealership buys in bulk. But we really don't know.

This is the article that Popular Mechanics needs to run. Tell us about the maintenance on the million mile club. What oci did they follow? What motor oil did they use?

But we can say for sure that an engine can go a million miles on Mobil 1.

Did any of these cars get RP? If anyone can find details on the motor oil used on any other million mile car, that would be great to share.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: deven
You got the short version answer. I'm done with this thread.


Originally Posted By: deven
I'm moving on as well after this reply. Merry Christmas and thanks for your support in this thread!!


Originally Posted By: deven

Yes it can. I own a speed shop in North Providence and am fortunate enough to own a dyno machine that shows a little hp increase(~2-3 hp). We have another 100 or so dyno'd engines on RP that show that as well. We have around 90-92% success rate with RP increasing HP. Usually average is around 3hp. Not a lot but in a race every littlle bit counts.


http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001398592.cfm?x=bfmW6PM,b1M25KBS

So the question must be asked. Why does deven keep posting false information? RP API is not PAO based RP confirms this. NAD along with BP Castrol confirmed RP does not increase horsepower.

The best thing to happen to Royal Purple was it sold to Calumet. After the purchase by Calumet many of the dubious claims have been dropped. It must take time for the loyal consumers to get the memo.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: deven
You got the short version answer. I'm done with this thread.


Originally Posted By: deven
I'm moving on as well after this reply. Merry Christmas and thanks for your support in this thread!!


Originally Posted By: deven

Yes it can. I own a speed shop in North Providence and am fortunate enough to own a dyno machine that shows a little hp increase(~2-3 hp). We have another 100 or so dyno'd engines on RP that show that as well. We have around 90-92% success rate with RP increasing HP. Usually average is around 3hp. Not a lot but in a race every littlle bit counts.


http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001398592.cfm?x=bfmW6PM,b1M25KBS

So the question must be asked. Why does deven keep posting false information? RP API is not PAO based RP confirms this. NAD along with BP Castrol confirmed RP does not increase horsepower.

The best thing to happen to Royal Purple was it sold to Calumet. After the purchase by Calumet many of the dubious claims have been dropped. It must take time for the loyal consumers to get the memo.

ROFLMAO
 
Someone with your name said they were done with this thread
You better investigate
Identity theft is bad
 
From dave1251's link...

FROM: THE LUBE REPORT (2009)

Truth in Advertising: BP v. Royal Purple

By George Gill

Royal Purple Ltd. was black and blue after BP Lubricants USA took it to task over advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, finding a receptive audience in the advertising industry’s self-regulatory forum.

The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus recommended Porter, Texas-based Royal Purple modify or discontinue numerous advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, following a challenge by Wayne, N.J.-based BP Lubricants. The NAD examined comparative performance and superiority claims in print, broadcast and Internet advertising. In some of the advertising, Royal Purple compared its performance to Castrol, Shell, Amsoil and other motor oil brands.

NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue its use of consumer testimonials reporting specific performance attributes in the absence of reliable independent evidence showing performance capability.

“Anecdotal evidence based solely on the experiences of individual consumers is insufficient to support product efficacy claims, including claims related to horsepower, torque, fuel economy or engine heat,” the organization stated. “While the advertiser may quote from published articles if it provides clear and conspicuous attribution to the publisher, it may not rely on such articles to support efficacy claims for which it has no reliable independent validation.”

NAD recommended Royal Purple discontinue claims such as “Increases horsepower and torque by as much as 3 percent,” “Reduces Engine Wear by 80 percent,” “Superior Oxidation Stability” and “Provides Film Strength Up to 400 Percent.”

“If industry-standard tests or tests with carefully documented controls were abandoned, there would be no basis whatsoever for making any meaningful claims about the relative efficacy of motor oils,” BP said in its challenge.

NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue claims that stated, “Improves fuel economy by as much as 5 percent” and “Fuel economy improvement up to 5 percent or more” because its Environmental Protection Agency testing was inconclusive and the “Oklahoma State Study” and single cylinder Labeco CLR diesel engine testing cited in Royal Purple’s advertising was not relevant. The NAD noted the 1997 OSU Study was “outdated and nothing in the record demonstrated that the formulations of the competitors’ oils were similar to those available for sale on the market today.”

BP Lubricants said it hired the independent laboratory Southwest Research Institute, in San Antonio, to analyze power output of gasoline engines with Royal Purple Oil and with BP’s Castrol oil for comparisons. “The results were provided to the challenger’s expert statistician who was not informed of the identity of the candidate oils,” NAD stated. “The challenger’s [BP’s] expert determined a 0.9 percent difference in power between the oils, which did not rise to the level of statistical significance, and is well below the 3 percent claim made by the advertiser.”

SwRI did additional tests to independently determine the differences in fuel economy, emissions data and engine temperature between Royal Purple and Castrol motor oils. According to SwRI, “there was no statistically significant difference between the fuel economy, emissions data or engine temperature between the two candidate oils,” NAD said.

Following its review of the non-anecdotal evidence in the record, NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue the claims, “Reduces emissions up to 20 percent or more” and “Reductions in emissions of 20 percent or more” because the studies on which the claims were based were outdated and not consumer-relevant.

NAD also recommended the advertiser discontinue its unsupported claim that Royal purple motor oil is “API/ILSAC Certified.” Noting that API and ILSAC licenses and certifications have many categories with different meanings, the NAD recommended that the company discontinue its claim that its synthetic oils are “generally ‘API/ILSAC Certified.’”

In fact, no Royal Purple products are certified to current ILSAC specifications.

The American Petroleum Institute licenses its trademarked Service Symbol, or ‘donut,’ for display on qualified engine oils, and also licenses the ILSAC ‘starburst’ logo for oils that meet the auto industry’s latest energy-conserving standards. In API’s online directory of licensees for its Engine Oil Licensing and Certification Program, Royal Purple has a total of 23 passenger car and diesel engine oil products listed, all licensed to use the API donut. Five of these may additionally display the words ‘energy conserving’ within the donut logo, but none of the Royal Purple products are licensable to the current ILSAC GF-4 specification and they cannot display the starburst logo.

Royal Purple also voluntarily agreed to discontinue the claims, “most advanced,” “unsurpassed performance” and “unparalleled performance,” steps the NAD said were necessary and proper to avoid confusion in the marketplace.

“While Royal Purple also believes that the tests and testimonials it supplied as evidence accurately portray the benefits of using its synthetic oil in a wide variety of applications, it defers to the NAD’s position that those tests and testimonials alone are insufficient to support specific performance attribute claims in consumer advertising,” the company said in its response to NAD. “... [Royal Purple] has already made changes to its advertising in accordance with the NAD recommendations and will continue to implement NAD’s recommendations and analysis in developing Royal Purple’s future advertising.”

BP Lubricants did not return phone calls from Lube Report requesting comment on NAD’s decision.


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Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Someone with your name said they were done with this thread
You better investigate
Identity theft is bad

I'm still going to defend my reputation.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
From dave1251's link...

FROM: THE LUBE REPORT (2009)

Truth in Advertising: BP v. Royal Purple

By George Gill

Royal Purple Ltd. was black and blue after BP Lubricants USA took it to task over advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, finding a receptive audience in the advertising industry’s self-regulatory forum.

The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus recommended Porter, Texas-based Royal Purple modify or discontinue numerous advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, following a challenge by Wayne, N.J.-based BP Lubricants. The NAD examined comparative performance and superiority claims in print, broadcast and Internet advertising. In some of the advertising, Royal Purple compared its performance to Castrol, Shell, Amsoil and other motor oil brands.

NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue its use of consumer testimonials reporting specific performance attributes in the absence of reliable independent evidence showing performance capability.

“Anecdotal evidence based solely on the experiences of individual consumers is insufficient to support product efficacy claims, including claims related to horsepower, torque, fuel economy or engine heat,” the organization stated. “While the advertiser may quote from published articles if it provides clear and conspicuous attribution to the publisher, it may not rely on such articles to support efficacy claims for which it has no reliable independent validation.”

NAD recommended Royal Purple discontinue claims such as “Increases horsepower and torque by as much as 3 percent,” “Reduces Engine Wear by 80 percent,” “Superior Oxidation Stability” and “Provides Film Strength Up to 400 Percent.”

“If industry-standard tests or tests with carefully documented controls were abandoned, there would be no basis whatsoever for making any meaningful claims about the relative efficacy of motor oils,” BP said in its challenge.

NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue claims that stated, “Improves fuel economy by as much as 5 percent” and “Fuel economy improvement up to 5 percent or more” because its Environmental Protection Agency testing was inconclusive and the “Oklahoma State Study” and single cylinder Labeco CLR diesel engine testing cited in Royal Purple’s advertising was not relevant. The NAD noted the 1997 OSU Study was “outdated and nothing in the record demonstrated that the formulations of the competitors’ oils were similar to those available for sale on the market today.”

BP Lubricants said it hired the independent laboratory Southwest Research Institute, in San Antonio, to analyze power output of gasoline engines with Royal Purple Oil and with BP’s Castrol oil for comparisons. “The results were provided to the challenger’s expert statistician who was not informed of the identity of the candidate oils,” NAD stated. “The challenger’s [BP’s] expert determined a 0.9 percent difference in power between the oils, which did not rise to the level of statistical significance, and is well below the 3 percent claim made by the advertiser.”

SwRI did additional tests to independently determine the differences in fuel economy, emissions data and engine temperature between Royal Purple and Castrol motor oils. According to SwRI, “there was no statistically significant difference between the fuel economy, emissions data or engine temperature between the two candidate oils,” NAD said.

Following its review of the non-anecdotal evidence in the record, NAD recommended that Royal Purple discontinue the claims, “Reduces emissions up to 20 percent or more” and “Reductions in emissions of 20 percent or more” because the studies on which the claims were based were outdated and not consumer-relevant.

NAD also recommended the advertiser discontinue its unsupported claim that Royal purple motor oil is “API/ILSAC Certified.” Noting that API and ILSAC licenses and certifications have many categories with different meanings, the NAD recommended that the company discontinue its claim that its synthetic oils are “generally ‘API/ILSAC Certified.’”

In fact, no Royal Purple products are certified to current ILSAC specifications.

The American Petroleum Institute licenses its trademarked Service Symbol, or ‘donut,’ for display on qualified engine oils, and also licenses the ILSAC ‘starburst’ logo for oils that meet the auto industry’s latest energy-conserving standards. In API’s online directory of licensees for its Engine Oil Licensing and Certification Program, Royal Purple has a total of 23 passenger car and diesel engine oil products listed, all licensed to use the API donut. Five of these may additionally display the words ‘energy conserving’ within the donut logo, but none of the Royal Purple products are licensable to the current ILSAC GF-4 specification and they cannot display the starburst logo.

Royal Purple also voluntarily agreed to discontinue the claims, “most advanced,” “unsurpassed performance” and “unparalleled performance,” steps the NAD said were necessary and proper to avoid confusion in the marketplace.

“While Royal Purple also believes that the tests and testimonials it supplied as evidence accurately portray the benefits of using its synthetic oil in a wide variety of applications, it defers to the NAD’s position that those tests and testimonials alone are insufficient to support specific performance attribute claims in consumer advertising,” the company said in its response to NAD. “... [Royal Purple] has already made changes to its advertising in accordance with the NAD recommendations and will continue to implement NAD’s recommendations and analysis in developing Royal Purple’s future advertising.”

BP Lubricants did not return phone calls from Lube Report requesting comment on NAD’s decision.


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Copyright © 2009 LNG Publishing Co., Inc. All rights reserved.




I have known about this for a long time since it has been thrown around a lot when RP comes up. Thanks but no thanks. I will believe my 100+ dyno tests that show that it indeed does increase hp. You guys sit behind a computer and be the arm chair quarterback while I go out in the real world and produce results.
 
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Originally Posted By: deven

I have known about this for a long time since it has been thrown around a lot when RP comes up. Thanks but no thanks. I will believe my 100+ dyno tests that show that it indeed does increase hp. You guys sit behind a computer and be the arm chair quarterback while I go out in the real world and produce results.


Let me see if I got this nice and straight. You tested side by side, back to back, you name it, RP vs. Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Castrol, Redline, Amsoil, etc..... In the same grade eg: RP 5w30 vs. Mobil 1, vs. Pennzoil 5W30, vs. Castrol 5W30. etc. all synthetic flavors and each time RP produced more HP than the other oils in the same engine under exactly the same conditions? 100+ times? Sorry my friend I don't by it. I don't buy 50 times. I'll take the word of THE LUBE REPORT.

I spend a lot of time searching the archives, I like locked threads. I've seen people mention something that goes like this. "You pay for the test, you get the results you want." Makes sense to me, but then again I probably got a few years on you.-RD
 
Originally Posted By: deven
I have known about this for a long time since it has been thrown around a lot when RP comes up. Thanks but no thanks. I will believe my 100+ dyno tests that show that it indeed does increase hp. You guys sit behind a computer and be the arm chair quarterback while I go out in the real world and produce results.


Ok, then what is the error range for you equipment? +/- what percentage? What is your control and how many samples do you take? Type-I false-positive much? You want to play arm-chair researcher, fine but don't say "produced results" without having the statistics to back it up. THAT is what turns off a lot of rational buyers off of those previous RP claims.
 
Customers come to the shop. They tell us what oil is in the sump. We dyno it and then change it to Royal Purple in the same weight if possible and dyno it again.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: deven
I have known about this for a long time since it has been thrown around a lot when RP comes up. Thanks but no thanks. I will believe my 100+ dyno tests that show that it indeed does increase hp. You guys sit behind a computer and be the arm chair quarterback while I go out in the real world and produce results.


Ok, then what is the error range for you equipment? +/- what percentage? What is your control and how many samples do you take? Type-I false-positive much? You want to play arm-chair researcher, fine but don't say "produced results" without having the statistics to back it up. THAT is what turns off a lot of rational buyers off of those previous RP claims.


Its obvious you have made up your mind about RP and will never look at that oil objectively.
The company that we bought the Dyno sends a tech out once a year to calibrate and troubleshoot the device unless we need them to come out sooner to troubleshoot. That's all. No samples. Just put the car on dyno 4 times usually. Twice on the oil the car came with and twice on the oil we put in which is usually Royal Purple.
 
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