Since the car had 5,000 miles on it, I've put regular Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 5W-20 in it with OEM filter. It now has 40k miles, and while having no issues and changing it every 5k, I'm wondering if Extended Performance would be any more benefit? I see most people choose to use it and I'm assuming just for the extended OCI. I'd really like to stick with 5k mile OCI only because it takes 6 months to put that on it and I'm pretty OCD. Also, 98% of the trips in it are 30+ minutes long; no short trips. Just curious if there's any short term benefit to EP over regular M1 OR if there is any analysis that another brand is better than M1 for this particular vehicle. Any other suggestions are welcome!
Is regular M1 OK for 07 Civic EX?
- Thread starter tpattgeek
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Regular M1 is perfectly fine, I don't know of any benefits EP has over M1 in the first 5k miles of use.
If you're interested in switching, you could save some cash going with a lower price synthetic like NAPA synthetic, you'll still get all the protection but with a lower cost. And to be honest, with 5k mile OCIs you could go with a quality conventional oil and still be fine.
Does the '07 Civic have an oil life monitor? Are you following that or just going with the 5k mile OCI?
If you're interested in switching, you could save some cash going with a lower price synthetic like NAPA synthetic, you'll still get all the protection but with a lower cost. And to be honest, with 5k mile OCIs you could go with a quality conventional oil and still be fine.
Does the '07 Civic have an oil life monitor? Are you following that or just going with the 5k mile OCI?
If your car is still under warranty i'd stick with Honda's OCI
But if its not you can continue to use M1 and go 7500-8000 OCI. If you wanted to use EP try 10k to 12k OCI for once a year oil changes.
But if its not you can continue to use M1 and go 7500-8000 OCI. If you wanted to use EP try 10k to 12k OCI for once a year oil changes.
with 5K OCI's there is no real advantage of EP over standard M1 in your application. (non turbo)
Its good but I would say Quaker State is the better buy at that or the Honda OCI. I mean QS Ultimate Durability (Q Horsepower) meets the GM Vette spec so its gotta be good. My toyota loves it.
Originally Posted By: sicko
Does the '07 Civic have an oil life monitor? Are you following that or just going with the 5k mile OCI?
It does have a monitor but I have yet to let it come up. I do it ever 5k no matter what, but I hear it comes up around 7k
Does the '07 Civic have an oil life monitor? Are you following that or just going with the 5k mile OCI?
It does have a monitor but I have yet to let it come up. I do it ever 5k no matter what, but I hear it comes up around 7k
Originally Posted By: dgee
you're wasting money dumping M1 that early.
you can push it to 8k easily without having issues sleeping at night
I know, but doing it twice a year, and buying the oil at Wal Mart, I'm looking at saving maybe $15/year by pushing it out to 8k OCI. And I don't have to put a reminder sticker on my window cuz I know to do it ever 5k
you're wasting money dumping M1 that early.
you can push it to 8k easily without having issues sleeping at night
I know, but doing it twice a year, and buying the oil at Wal Mart, I'm looking at saving maybe $15/year by pushing it out to 8k OCI. And I don't have to put a reminder sticker on my window cuz I know to do it ever 5k
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Wasn`t EP said to contain more PAO?
iirc, Tom said that EP was what he used in his extraction test.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Wasn`t EP said to contain more PAO?
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3
It contains 50% more SuperSyn than regular. Maybe at 60k (warranty), I'll switch to EP and do 10K intervals. That'll really screw up my oil life monitor... not really going by it anyway.
Wasn`t EP said to contain more PAO?
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3
It contains 50% more SuperSyn than regular. Maybe at 60k (warranty), I'll switch to EP and do 10K intervals. That'll really screw up my oil life monitor... not really going by it anyway.
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I used to use M1 15W50 EP religiously. I feel like it was a better oil than the new formula silver cap 15W50.
only if it doesn't consume under m1 usage(common in many applications, don't know why...)
dnewton3
Staff member
"Just curious if there's any short term benefit to EP over regular M1 OR if there is any analysis that another brand is better than M1 for this particular vehicle. Any other suggestions are welcome!"
No - I don't think there is any short term benefit to using EP over M1. In fact, since you stated "other suggestions are welcome" ...
Your "typical" use: 5k miles in 6 months or less, with no short trips?
M1 is a waste. Actually, any synthetic is, in your case. You should use any quality dino brand name you like. Honda's are notoriously easy on oil. You are throwing money away by not using the M1 out to it's full potential. Using EP would be an even greater waste. EP is guaranteed to 15k miles, and you want to dump it at 1/3 that duration? Even the dino Clean 5000 can go out past 5k miles in some situations, if the OEM allows it (such as my Fusion).
It is a false assumption to believe that the "protection" or "wear reduction" is linear when comparing dino's to synthetics in short-to-moderate OCIs. They both perform nearly the same. The only time a synthetic has a distinct, significant advantage is in LONG OCIs or ultra-super-freeze-your-booty-off cold, which likely won't be your concern in LA. Your described use is PERFECT for dino oils; long drive cycles with "normal" use, at 5k miles. Where is the "severe" circumstance is this? Nowhere! You'll spend 3x as much money using a premium synthetic over a dino. Are you expecting 3x less "wear"? You certainly won't get it. UOAs clearly show no statistically significant advantage in cases such as this.
Is it "possible" to get less wear in your case? Yes. But that does not quantify the amount of wear reduction. The synthetic might reduce wear over a dino, but it would be so insubstantially small in measurement that it would get lost in the "noise" of statistical sampling. If it costs you 300% more money, but only returns .07% (a swag'd number) less wear, is that your idea of a good investment? My point is that the "possible" reduction of wear from using synthetics in moderate OCI durations is so miniscule that it cannot even be distinguished within a single sigma variation in statistical analysis! And since I doubt you want to pay to tear down and re-assemble your engine every 10k miles to measure bearing clearances, we'll just have to use UOAs as our "proof".
You are free to use whatever you choose, for whatever reason you decide. But just because you "can" use synthetics for your scenario, doesn't mean it's a logical decision.
If you doubt me, then why not run several UOAs to prove me wrong? Run several UOAs with your M1, and then swap to Clean 5000 and see if you wear metals spike up and run continuously 3x higher.
No - I don't think there is any short term benefit to using EP over M1. In fact, since you stated "other suggestions are welcome" ...
Your "typical" use: 5k miles in 6 months or less, with no short trips?
M1 is a waste. Actually, any synthetic is, in your case. You should use any quality dino brand name you like. Honda's are notoriously easy on oil. You are throwing money away by not using the M1 out to it's full potential. Using EP would be an even greater waste. EP is guaranteed to 15k miles, and you want to dump it at 1/3 that duration? Even the dino Clean 5000 can go out past 5k miles in some situations, if the OEM allows it (such as my Fusion).
It is a false assumption to believe that the "protection" or "wear reduction" is linear when comparing dino's to synthetics in short-to-moderate OCIs. They both perform nearly the same. The only time a synthetic has a distinct, significant advantage is in LONG OCIs or ultra-super-freeze-your-booty-off cold, which likely won't be your concern in LA. Your described use is PERFECT for dino oils; long drive cycles with "normal" use, at 5k miles. Where is the "severe" circumstance is this? Nowhere! You'll spend 3x as much money using a premium synthetic over a dino. Are you expecting 3x less "wear"? You certainly won't get it. UOAs clearly show no statistically significant advantage in cases such as this.
Is it "possible" to get less wear in your case? Yes. But that does not quantify the amount of wear reduction. The synthetic might reduce wear over a dino, but it would be so insubstantially small in measurement that it would get lost in the "noise" of statistical sampling. If it costs you 300% more money, but only returns .07% (a swag'd number) less wear, is that your idea of a good investment? My point is that the "possible" reduction of wear from using synthetics in moderate OCI durations is so miniscule that it cannot even be distinguished within a single sigma variation in statistical analysis! And since I doubt you want to pay to tear down and re-assemble your engine every 10k miles to measure bearing clearances, we'll just have to use UOAs as our "proof".
You are free to use whatever you choose, for whatever reason you decide. But just because you "can" use synthetics for your scenario, doesn't mean it's a logical decision.
If you doubt me, then why not run several UOAs to prove me wrong? Run several UOAs with your M1, and then swap to Clean 5000 and see if you wear metals spike up and run continuously 3x higher.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
"Just curious if there's any short term benefit to EP over regular M1 OR if there is any analysis that another brand is better than M1 for this particular vehicle. Any other suggestions are welcome!"
No - I don't think there is any short term benefit to using EP over M1. In fact, since you stated "other suggestions are welcome" ...
Your "typical" use: 5k miles in 6 months or less, with no short trips?
M1 is a waste. Actually, any synthetic is, in your case. You should use any quality dino brand name you like. Honda's are notoriously easy on oil. You are throwing money away by not using the M1 out to it's full potential. Using EP would be an even greater waste. EP is guaranteed to 15k miles, and you want to dump it at 1/3 that duration? Even the dino Clean 5000 can go out past 5k miles in some situations, if the OEM allows it (such as my Fusion).
It is a false assumption to believe that the "protection" or "wear reduction" is linear when comparing dino's to synthetics in short-to-moderate OCIs. They both perform nearly the same. The only time a synthetic has a distinct, significant advantage is in LONG OCIs or ultra-super-freeze-your-booty-off cold, which likely won't be your concern in LA. Your described use is PERFECT for dino oils; long drive cycles with "normal" use, at 5k miles. Where is the "severe" circumstance is this? Nowhere! You'll spend 3x as much money using a premium synthetic over a dino. Are you expecting 3x less "wear"? You certainly won't get it. UOAs clearly show no statistically significant advantage in cases such as this.
Is it "possible" to get less wear in your case? Yes. But that does not quantify the amount of wear reduction. The synthetic might reduce wear over a dino, but it would be so insubstantially small in measurement that it would get lost in the "noise" of statistical sampling. If it costs you 300% more money, but only returns .07% (a swag'd number) less wear, is that your idea of a good investment? My point is that the "possible" reduction of wear from using synthetics in moderate OCI durations is so miniscule that it cannot even be distinguished within a single sigma variation in statistical analysis! And since I doubt you want to pay to tear down and re-assemble your engine every 10k miles to measure bearing clearances, we'll just have to use UOAs as our "proof".
You are free to use whatever you choose, for whatever reason you decide. But just because you "can" use synthetics for your scenario, doesn't mean it's a logical decision.
If you doubt me, then why not run several UOAs to prove me wrong? Run several UOAs with your M1, and then swap to Clean 5000 and see if you wear metals spike up and run continuously 3x higher.
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
"Just curious if there's any short term benefit to EP over regular M1 OR if there is any analysis that another brand is better than M1 for this particular vehicle. Any other suggestions are welcome!"
No - I don't think there is any short term benefit to using EP over M1. In fact, since you stated "other suggestions are welcome" ...
Your "typical" use: 5k miles in 6 months or less, with no short trips?
M1 is a waste. Actually, any synthetic is, in your case. You should use any quality dino brand name you like. Honda's are notoriously easy on oil. You are throwing money away by not using the M1 out to it's full potential. Using EP would be an even greater waste. EP is guaranteed to 15k miles, and you want to dump it at 1/3 that duration? Even the dino Clean 5000 can go out past 5k miles in some situations, if the OEM allows it (such as my Fusion).
It is a false assumption to believe that the "protection" or "wear reduction" is linear when comparing dino's to synthetics in short-to-moderate OCIs. They both perform nearly the same. The only time a synthetic has a distinct, significant advantage is in LONG OCIs or ultra-super-freeze-your-booty-off cold, which likely won't be your concern in LA. Your described use is PERFECT for dino oils; long drive cycles with "normal" use, at 5k miles. Where is the "severe" circumstance is this? Nowhere! You'll spend 3x as much money using a premium synthetic over a dino. Are you expecting 3x less "wear"? You certainly won't get it. UOAs clearly show no statistically significant advantage in cases such as this.
Is it "possible" to get less wear in your case? Yes. But that does not quantify the amount of wear reduction. The synthetic might reduce wear over a dino, but it would be so insubstantially small in measurement that it would get lost in the "noise" of statistical sampling. If it costs you 300% more money, but only returns .07% (a swag'd number) less wear, is that your idea of a good investment? My point is that the "possible" reduction of wear from using synthetics in moderate OCI durations is so miniscule that it cannot even be distinguished within a single sigma variation in statistical analysis! And since I doubt you want to pay to tear down and re-assemble your engine every 10k miles to measure bearing clearances, we'll just have to use UOAs as our "proof".
You are free to use whatever you choose, for whatever reason you decide. But just because you "can" use synthetics for your scenario, doesn't mean it's a logical decision.
If you doubt me, then why not run several UOAs to prove me wrong? Run several UOAs with your M1, and then swap to Clean 5000 and see if you wear metals spike up and run continuously 3x higher.
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
EXCELLENT POST from dnewton3!
To answer your questions;
1. I sure hope not. I've gone from syn to conventional back to syn and back. I've done that for many vehicles for many years. Never a single oil releated problem. All the oil companies like Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil and such will say so on their web site.
They LOVE for you not to, but not a concern.
2. I operate my vehicles in well below zero to well above a hundred for hours on end. Until the middle 90s I only used 10w-30. Now I use 5w-30 conventional 98% of the time and all is fine. My highest mileage vehicle made it to 394,000 miles before it died. Was running perfect for all those miles with never having the valve cover off, an injector off or anything like that. I've got other vehicles with well over 200,000 miles and same.
There are VERY few situations with a Civic (or really most vehicles) that REQUIRE a syn oil. Need vs want is a big thing here.
Take care, Bill
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
EXCELLENT POST from dnewton3!
To answer your questions;
1. I sure hope not. I've gone from syn to conventional back to syn and back. I've done that for many vehicles for many years. Never a single oil releated problem. All the oil companies like Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil and such will say so on their web site.
They LOVE for you not to, but not a concern.
2. I operate my vehicles in well below zero to well above a hundred for hours on end. Until the middle 90s I only used 10w-30. Now I use 5w-30 conventional 98% of the time and all is fine. My highest mileage vehicle made it to 394,000 miles before it died. Was running perfect for all those miles with never having the valve cover off, an injector off or anything like that. I've got other vehicles with well over 200,000 miles and same.
There are VERY few situations with a Civic (or really most vehicles) that REQUIRE a syn oil. Need vs want is a big thing here.
Take care, Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
EXCELLENT POST from dnewton3!
To answer your questions;
1. I sure hope not. I've gone from syn to conventional back to syn and back. I've done that for many vehicles for many years. Never a single oil releated problem. All the oil companies like Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil and such will say so on their web site.
They LOVE for you not to, but not a concern.
2. I operate my vehicles in well below zero to well above a hundred for hours on end. Until the middle 90s I only used 10w-30. Now I use 5w-30 conventional 98% of the time and all is fine. My highest mileage vehicle made it to 394,000 miles before it died. Was running perfect for all those miles with never having the valve cover off, an injector off or anything like that. I've got other vehicles with well over 200,000 miles and same.
There are VERY few situations with a Civic (or really most vehicles) that REQUIRE a syn oil. Need vs want is a big thing here.
Take care, Bill
I appreciate your info, but doing the change myself about every 6 months and spending less that $30 to complete with M1 and OEM filter, it really does let me sleep better at night, and I'm sorry to say that spending a few extra dollars every OCI isn't a huge deal. I understand conventional is fine for my lifestyle, but M1 sure does let me sleep better, and that's really all that matters, right?
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
While I do agree with everything you said, I'm also concerned about a couple of things. Maybe it's just my 1990's mindset.
1. I've been using M1 for 40k, so would there be a long term issue with switching to dino for the rest of the car's life?
2. In about 7 years, this car will belong to my son, and who knows where we'll live, what our trips will be like, etc. I don't believe switching back to M1 at 120k would make much since if needed? So I may just spend the extra money now and stick with one brand/type. Thanks for all the info!
EXCELLENT POST from dnewton3!
To answer your questions;
1. I sure hope not. I've gone from syn to conventional back to syn and back. I've done that for many vehicles for many years. Never a single oil releated problem. All the oil companies like Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil and such will say so on their web site.
They LOVE for you not to, but not a concern.
2. I operate my vehicles in well below zero to well above a hundred for hours on end. Until the middle 90s I only used 10w-30. Now I use 5w-30 conventional 98% of the time and all is fine. My highest mileage vehicle made it to 394,000 miles before it died. Was running perfect for all those miles with never having the valve cover off, an injector off or anything like that. I've got other vehicles with well over 200,000 miles and same.
There are VERY few situations with a Civic (or really most vehicles) that REQUIRE a syn oil. Need vs want is a big thing here.
Take care, Bill
I appreciate your info, but doing the change myself about every 6 months and spending less that $30 to complete with M1 and OEM filter, it really does let me sleep better at night, and I'm sorry to say that spending a few extra dollars every OCI isn't a huge deal. I understand conventional is fine for my lifestyle, but M1 sure does let me sleep better, and that's really all that matters, right?
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Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
I appreciate your info, but doing the change myself about every 6 months and spending less that $30 to complete with M1 and OEM filter, it really does let me sleep better at night, and I'm sorry to say that spending a few extra dollars every OCI isn't a huge deal. I understand conventional is fine for my lifestyle, but M1 sure does let me sleep better, and that's really all that matters, right?
Well you have the facts (remember there are many other people who read threads like this to get FACTUAL info)
So the answer to your original question is stick with the regular Mobil 1. (much to the disappointment of Mobil though they still thank you for buying their Mobil 1 product instead of their Mobil 5000 oil
)
Bill
I appreciate your info, but doing the change myself about every 6 months and spending less that $30 to complete with M1 and OEM filter, it really does let me sleep better at night, and I'm sorry to say that spending a few extra dollars every OCI isn't a huge deal. I understand conventional is fine for my lifestyle, but M1 sure does let me sleep better, and that's really all that matters, right?
Well you have the facts (remember there are many other people who read threads like this to get FACTUAL info)
So the answer to your original question is stick with the regular Mobil 1. (much to the disappointment of Mobil though they still thank you for buying their Mobil 1 product instead of their Mobil 5000 oil
Bill
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